Ah, I do believe I see your point. I believe encephelon said it best on your
RfA: The remedy did not follow from the findings of fact (Admins are held to
higher standings, your actions, etc) and the principles (admins can be
de-sysopped if they abuse their position) didn't give an appropriate remedy.
I agree as well to your point how the community should not and cannot be
expected to make their own findings of fact and remedy in the RfA.
What we had was a transfer of the duties of ArbCom to the community,
seemingly against their own principles and ours at
[[Wikipedia:Administrators]], which shows that adminship can only be removed
by Jimbo Himself or by that very ArbCom.
However, I still disagree with your idea that the RfA was one to de-sysop;
rather, it was more of a confirmation. But that's just quibbling over terms
;). Hopefully, the committee can expand and define the case to completely
reflect it and the community's wishes.
Regards,
[[:en:User:Bratsche|ben]]
On 11/3/05, steve v <vertigosteve(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
--- "Ben E." <bratsche1(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Bureaucrats don't count the neutral votes as
actual
"votes."
Also, your RfA was to be treated as a normal one.
This is at the heart of the matter, and why the
majority voted to punt it back: Under no circumstances
would a post-RFAR RFA possibly be considered to be a
"normal one." Ask yourself, Benjamin: how is the
community to make heads or tails of an RFA as a remedy
for a case which the Arbcom itself could only find
generic 'findings of fact'?
James F., who supported the RFA idea, argued against
Theresa's desysop vote, saying "but we massively
prejudice a community vote by suspending his
priviledges." This is highly interesting (not
sarcastic) because any simplistically rendered
"findings of fact" likewise "massively prejudice a
community vote." While veteran member Theresa and I
quibbled about the "morality" of unblocking oneself
(she was reasonably responsive to comments though),
she nevertheless stood firm for a decisive decision.
Gotta give the lady credit.
...based on the quote from
[[User:Raul654]] (an arbitrator) on the bottom of
the page in the "Comments"
section found in centered italics:
...
Under those qualifications, your RfA was closed
early by Theresa knott as
failed, and the case was sent back to the
Arbitration Committee.
Wait a minute. It wasnt an 'RFA to sysop,' because I
already was one. It was an RFA to 'desysop,' which, if
you only count oppose/non-oppose votes (29 out of
102), was indeed rather successful, IIDSSM.
Respectfully, what youre really complaing about is not
the outcome, but the indecision inherent to that kind
of remedy --"mob justice" FLOABT. All of this
confusion is the direct result of Arbcom's unique
remedy, which is the direct result of an inability to
even define the nature of the case: There was (and
probably still is) disagreement within the Arbcom
about not just the remedy, but the nature of the
offense:
* Jayjg: "I think the wording needs to be modified to
something like "gain undue advantage with respect to a
dispute etc...."
* James: "I absolutely, vehemently disagree. The use
of the rollback button must always be used only for
reverting pure vandalism..."
* Fred: "I don't think this is about using rollback
for a revert. It is about unblocking yourself after a
3RR block then editing a protected page...."
The rub, for those who missed it: There should be some
agreement on what the actual offense is before
deciding on a penalty. The errors made in my case
would get the whole thing thrown out in a normal
judicial process, where theres a more keen
understanding of how misjudgements can do more harm
than the original offense.
But with that said, I do feel for the Arbcom and their
"thankless job." Fred was correct when he said that
the Arbcom needs Defenders to assist defendants in
making their cases, and Prosecutors to make a case
thats coherent enough to begin with, with a targeted
remedy. Life isnt black and white, people.
SV
The weakest link is a pillar of strength.
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