[Foundation-l] WikiKids - Vikidia: encyclopedia for children

Sun Nov 20 06:15:37 UTC 2011

Earlier this year, I helped organize and archive some of the past proposals
for new Wikimedia projects on meta, and those with an education focus
(including several for children's education) are collected here:

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Proposed_projects_-_education

Perhaps these historical proposals might also be of some use.

Thanks,
Richard
(User:Pharos)

On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 1:54 PM, Mathias Damour
<mathias.damour at laposte.net>wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I've tried to compile some of the old messages and discussions about
> this topic, which has been put in light time to time, notably (as far as
> I know) three times on this mailing list from 2005 to 2010 (see below).
>
> I am a French wikipedian, and would like to tell you about this pretty
> old project: a wiki encyclopedia designed for and partly maintained by
> children.
> The idea of a equivalent of Wikipedia for children was discussed in
> particular in 2005-2006 on this page :
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikids
>
> Although it had no continuation as a Wikimedia project, wikis with such
> a feature were launched first in Dutch: WikiKids
> http://wikikids.wiki.kennisnet.nl ; in french a few month later: Vikidia
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikidia ( http://fr.vikidia.org/ ) and then
> in Spanish ( http://es.vikidia.org ) for 8-13 years old children. I
> opened Vikidia.
>
> WikiKids.nl and Vikidia in French are doing well and are quite alike in
> size and activity, they are both 5 years old now, whereas Vikidia in
> Spanish doesn't make it so well. (If you are Spanish speaker or if you
> know people that would be interested in it, please tell them about this
> wiki !)
>
> On Vikidia in French, we currently have a guest-book opened, and the
> comments left on it
> http://fr.vikidia.org/wiki/Vikidia:Livre_d%27or/Automne_2011 are quite
> encouraging (Google translation: http://bit.ly/vfPP4m ). Children say
> they appreciate the articles to be more readable for them than on
> Wikipedia, their main reserve being that some article are not developed
> enough, or that there isn't articles on every subject they would like to
> know about... They clearly expect (and claim) some substantial content,
> though it has to be easier than the Wikipedia's content.
>
> We have yet a bit more than 10,500 articles in Vikidia in French, and
> about 250,000 unique visitors a month.
>
> This "Wikikids" question was mentioned again in the Wikimedia scope one
> year ago firstly on this mailing list, and on the 2010 Wikimedia Study
> of Controversial Content there:
>
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/2010_Wikimedia_Study_of_Controversial_Content:_Part_Two#Recommendations:_Controversial_Text
> :
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Recommendations: Controversial Text
> Because of the considerations outlined above, our recommendations
> surrounding text in WMF projects are the following:
>
> It is recommended:
> (...)
> 3. That, however, the Foundation investigate the creation of a
> “WikiJunior” version of the Wikipedias, aimed at children under the age
> of 12, either as a stand-alone project or in partnership with existing
> and appropriate educational institutions.
> Explanations:
> (...)
> Recommendations 2 and 3
> (...) Much more successful, in our opinion, is a project specifically
> targeted to children, and to the quite different needs of children in
> different age groups. Some projects of this nature have already been
> begun in the WikiJunior section of WikiBooks, but it is our feeling that
> the scope of such a venture might necessitate the formation of
> partnerships with institutions who have experience and resources already
> devoted to this area.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> I of course agree, except on those points :
>
> * /"a project specifically targeted to children, and to the quite
> different needs of children in different age groups"/ I would warn
> against the idea of dividing the content for age group as restricted as
> each year of age, following the pattern of school class. That point
> could be expounded.
> * /"the scope of such a venture might necessitate the formation of
> partnerships with institutions who have experience and resources already
> devoted to this area."/ Thats quite a conservative point of view, kind
> of those that, if followed by Wikipedia, wouldn't have permit its
> developpment. I mean that in such a project, one should try to
> communicate with institutions, publicize what they do, share some points
> of view, competence and so on, but he shouldn't wait for those
> institutions as if they would have to approuve the project and its
> methods, as if only them could tell what is good for the project, since
> it deals with children.
>
> Another feature of WikiKids/Vikidia is of course that it let children be
> involved in building the content, and does not "only" aim to produce and
> offer content for children, for the same benefits that you can find in
> Wikipedia-editing workshops for students. There is both some school
> projects and volunteer (and often enthusiastic) children editing on
> Vikidia along with teenagers, students and adult writers.
> This project is not the same as Wikijunior. It is a Wikipedia-like
> project, which Wikijunior isn't.
>
> I do have in mind that there is Simple English Wikipedia, whom no other
> equivalent have been created in any other language. I guess that it
> would make less easy to create a wikikids in english, as it would be
> partly similar to simple. I would also say that the fact that this wiki
> is not so big and hasn't been created in other language may show that
> its aim would not be so clear, mobilizing and justifying. By the way, on
> Vikidia, we do hope to be usefull not only to children but to people of
> any age that would like a simple approach of a subject, or a shorter one
> than on Wikipedia. We beleive that if its content were not relevant to
> older people, it wouldn't be good either for children.
>
> Another thought, one may even link this projet with an article of the
> convention on the Rights of the Child
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_the_Rights_of_the_Child which
> is the following:
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Article 13 http://www2.ohchr.org/english/law/crc.htm#art13
> 1. The child shall have the right to freedom of expression; this right
> shall include freedom to seek, receive *and impart* information and
> ideas of all kinds, regardless of frontiers, either orally, in writing
> or in print, in the form of art, or through any other media of the
> child's choice.
> 2. The exercise of this right may be subject to certain restrictions,
> but these shall only be such as are provided by law and are necessary:
> (a) For respect of the rights or reputations of others; or
> (b) For the protection of national security or of public order (ordre
> public), or of public health or morals.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I'm afraid that the main objection may be the opinion I can read on the
> 2010 discussion on this list, which is to assume that anything that
> deals with children should be exclusively conducted by certified
> professionnals, and thus can not be an open collaboration project. Since
> I can't see any legal grounds to it (do you need a licence to write a
> book for children ?), I guess it has some sociological or cultural
> grounds...
> However, the point of this message is to address the "I don't think it
> can work well" objection, associated with issues such as vandalism,
> censorship, defining the appropriate content, children motivation and
> ability to edit articles... since it does work well at least in two
> language, where there is children, teenagers and adults working together
> to better the wiki. And thousands of readers every days.
>
> Previous discussions on this mailing list :
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2005-January/015108.html
> January 2005
>
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2007-May/thread.html#30511
> May 2007
>
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2010-June/thread.html#59456
> June 2010
>
> On the wikis :
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikids
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales/Archive_86#New_Wikipedia_for_Kids
> October 2011
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)/Archive_79#WikiKids_-_Vikidia:_encyclopedia_for_children
> October 2011
> http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposal:Wikipedia_exclusively_for_Kids
> http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposal:Wiki_for_kids
> http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposal:Wikipedia_Junior
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28proposals%29/Archive_30#Wikipediakids
> and July 2010
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28policy%29/Archive_78#NOTCENSORED_and_content_control
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28proposals%29/Archive_78#Summary_Pages_NOT_Childrens.27_Pages
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28proposals%29/Persistent_proposals#Abbreviated_Wikipedia_or_Childrens.27_Wikipedia
>
> Greetings,
>
> --
> Mathias Damour
> [[User:Astirmays]]
> 49 rue Carnot
> 74000 Annecy
> France
> 00 (33)4 57 09 10 56
> 00 (33)6 27 13 65 51
> mathias.damour at laposte.net
>
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