[Foundation-l] WikiKids - Vikidia: encyclopedia for children

Mathias Damour mathias.damour at laposte.net
Sat Nov 19 18:54:02 UTC 2011


Hi all,

I've tried to compile some of the old messages and discussions about 
this topic, which has been put in light time to time, notably (as far as 
I know) three times on this mailing list from 2005 to 2010 (see below).

I am a French wikipedian, and would like to tell you about this pretty 
old project: a wiki encyclopedia designed for and partly maintained by 
children.
The idea of a equivalent of Wikipedia for children was discussed in 
particular in 2005-2006 on this page : 
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikids

Although it had no continuation as a Wikimedia project, wikis with such 
a feature were launched first in Dutch: WikiKids 
http://wikikids.wiki.kennisnet.nl ; in french a few month later: Vikidia 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikidia ( http://fr.vikidia.org/ ) and then 
in Spanish ( http://es.vikidia.org ) for 8-13 years old children. I 
opened Vikidia.

WikiKids.nl and Vikidia in French are doing well and are quite alike in 
size and activity, they are both 5 years old now, whereas Vikidia in 
Spanish doesn't make it so well. (If you are Spanish speaker or if you 
know people that would be interested in it, please tell them about this 
wiki !)

On Vikidia in French, we currently have a guest-book opened, and the 
comments left on it 
http://fr.vikidia.org/wiki/Vikidia:Livre_d%27or/Automne_2011 are quite 
encouraging (Google translation: http://bit.ly/vfPP4m ). Children say 
they appreciate the articles to be more readable for them than on 
Wikipedia, their main reserve being that some article are not developed 
enough, or that there isn't articles on every subject they would like to 
know about... They clearly expect (and claim) some substantial content, 
though it has to be easier than the Wikipedia's content.

We have yet a bit more than 10,500 articles in Vikidia in French, and 
about 250,000 unique visitors a month.

This "Wikikids" question was mentioned again in the Wikimedia scope one 
year ago firstly on this mailing list, and on the 2010 Wikimedia Study 
of Controversial Content there: 
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/2010_Wikimedia_Study_of_Controversial_Content:_Part_Two#Recommendations:_Controversial_Text:

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recommendations: Controversial Text
Because of the considerations outlined above, our recommendations 
surrounding text in WMF projects are the following:

It is recommended:
(...)
3. That, however, the Foundation investigate the creation of a 
“WikiJunior” version of the Wikipedias, aimed at children under the age 
of 12, either as a stand-alone project or in partnership with existing 
and appropriate educational institutions.
Explanations:
(...)
Recommendations 2 and 3
(...) Much more successful, in our opinion, is a project specifically 
targeted to children, and to the quite different needs of children in 
different age groups. Some projects of this nature have already been 
begun in the WikiJunior section of WikiBooks, but it is our feeling that 
the scope of such a venture might necessitate the formation of 
partnerships with institutions who have experience and resources already 
devoted to this area.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
I of course agree, except on those points :

* /"a project specifically targeted to children, and to the quite 
different needs of children in different age groups"/ I would warn 
against the idea of dividing the content for age group as restricted as 
each year of age, following the pattern of school class. That point 
could be expounded.
* /"the scope of such a venture might necessitate the formation of 
partnerships with institutions who have experience and resources already 
devoted to this area."/ Thats quite a conservative point of view, kind 
of those that, if followed by Wikipedia, wouldn't have permit its 
developpment. I mean that in such a project, one should try to 
communicate with institutions, publicize what they do, share some points 
of view, competence and so on, but he shouldn't wait for those 
institutions as if they would have to approuve the project and its 
methods, as if only them could tell what is good for the project, since 
it deals with children.

Another feature of WikiKids/Vikidia is of course that it let children be 
involved in building the content, and does not "only" aim to produce and 
offer content for children, for the same benefits that you can find in 
Wikipedia-editing workshops for students. There is both some school 
projects and volunteer (and often enthusiastic) children editing on 
Vikidia along with teenagers, students and adult writers.
This project is not the same as Wikijunior. It is a Wikipedia-like 
project, which Wikijunior isn't.

I do have in mind that there is Simple English Wikipedia, whom no other 
equivalent have been created in any other language. I guess that it 
would make less easy to create a wikikids in english, as it would be 
partly similar to simple. I would also say that the fact that this wiki 
is not so big and hasn't been created in other language may show that 
its aim would not be so clear, mobilizing and justifying. By the way, on 
Vikidia, we do hope to be usefull not only to children but to people of 
any age that would like a simple approach of a subject, or a shorter one 
than on Wikipedia. We beleive that if its content were not relevant to 
older people, it wouldn't be good either for children.

Another thought, one may even link this projet with an article of the 
convention on the Rights of the Child 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_the_Rights_of_the_Child which 
is the following:

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Article 13 http://www2.ohchr.org/english/law/crc.htm#art13
1. The child shall have the right to freedom of expression; this right 
shall include freedom to seek, receive *and impart* information and 
ideas of all kinds, regardless of frontiers, either orally, in writing 
or in print, in the form of art, or through any other media of the 
child's choice.
2. The exercise of this right may be subject to certain restrictions, 
but these shall only be such as are provided by law and are necessary:
(a) For respect of the rights or reputations of others; or
(b) For the protection of national security or of public order (ordre 
public), or of public health or morals.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm afraid that the main objection may be the opinion I can read on the 
2010 discussion on this list, which is to assume that anything that 
deals with children should be exclusively conducted by certified 
professionnals, and thus can not be an open collaboration project. Since 
I can't see any legal grounds to it (do you need a licence to write a 
book for children ?), I guess it has some sociological or cultural 
grounds...
However, the point of this message is to address the "I don't think it 
can work well" objection, associated with issues such as vandalism, 
censorship, defining the appropriate content, children motivation and 
ability to edit articles... since it does work well at least in two 
language, where there is children, teenagers and adults working together 
to better the wiki. And thousands of readers every days.

Previous discussions on this mailing list :
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2005-January/015108.html 
January 2005
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2007-May/thread.html#30511 
May 2007
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2010-June/thread.html#59456 
June 2010

On the wikis :
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikids
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales/Archive_86#New_Wikipedia_for_Kids 
October 2011
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)/Archive_79#WikiKids_-_Vikidia:_encyclopedia_for_children 
October 2011
http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposal:Wikipedia_exclusively_for_Kids
http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposal:Wiki_for_kids
http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposal:Wikipedia_Junior
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28proposals%29/Archive_30#Wikipediakids 
and July 2010
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28policy%29/Archive_78#NOTCENSORED_and_content_control
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28proposals%29/Archive_78#Summary_Pages_NOT_Childrens.27_Pages
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28proposals%29/Persistent_proposals#Abbreviated_Wikipedia_or_Childrens.27_Wikipedia

Greetings,

-- 
Mathias Damour
[[User:Astirmays]]
49 rue Carnot
74000 Annecy
France
00 (33)4 57 09 10 56
00 (33)6 27 13 65 51
mathias.damour at laposte.net



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