Timwi wrote:
Brion Vibber wrote:
Timwi wrote:
It just
makes it a lot harder to deal with such pages: if you
HTTP-redirect straight to the target page you're missing the link back
to the redirect page. (And that is *crucial* for editing work and
vandalism cleanup. It is non-negotiable.)
I feel I should point out an implicit fallacy in this. It is
non-negotiable that we need a link to the redirect page. It is *not*
non-negotiable that we can't return a 301 HTTP redirection.
The only fallacy is yours, you invented some claim that I said 301s
can't be
used.
Please stop getting so worked up over stuff, Brion. I didn't "invent"
any "claim"; I pointed out a fallacy that people may make when reading
your message, not necessarily a fallacy you made.
if you had read my message you'd have seen
One of your most annoying habits is to allege that people didn't read
your messages. I did, and I understood your point. I'm afraid you're the
one that didn't understand mine - but maybe I wasn't quite clear enough,
so I'll try to clarify:
my point was using a 301 would require sending
additional parameters
No, it wouldn't. _My_ point was that if we placed a link to the page you
came from _somewhere else_ than a "redirected from" line (e.g. a list of
"pages that redirect to here" on the Edit page), you would *not* need to
send additional parameters. You could get back to the page a different
way than you do currently.
Caching.
The browser can cache anything based on the URL and the headers given in
Vary. (Within the bounds defined by the cache headers.)
If you were to use HTTP redirects in this manner (and not add a CGI
paramater), then Referer would have to be added to Vary, causing the
browser to cache a seperate (but generally identical) version of the
page _for every page it is linked from._
Using sessions would be impossible in this manner. The browser can not
determine if what has been saved with the session has changed.
As for telling the browser to not cache redirected pages, then you come
up with this issue:
- User ("Joe")navigates to [[Article A]].
- [[Article A]] links to [[Article B]] and [[Article C]].
- Joe navigates to [[Article B]], and his browser caches the copy.
- Joe then navigates to [[Article C]] (from [[Article A]]), which links
to [[Article D]]
- [[Article D]] is a redirect to [[Article B]]
- Joe navigates to [[Article D]] from [[Article C]]
- The server sends a 301 Moved Permanently, and the browser loads the
cached copy--The cached copy doesn't have the redirected from line!
As for this shouting match, I suggest you two explain yourselves in
detail so there is mutual understanding.
Of course, you're both qualified adults and can take care of yourselves,
so why am I even bothering to mention it? I'm sure you can logically
come to an agreeable solution.
-- Jamie
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