On 28 Dec 2004, at 04:12, Mark Williamson wrote:
Without commenting on my side on the issue, I think I
should note that
paganism is a religion as well, and thus symbols of paganism are
religious symbols.
Yes and no.
The 1913 Webster defines "pagan" as follows:
> Pagan \Pa"gan\, a. [L. paganus of or
pertaining to the country,
> pagan. See Pagan, n.]
> Of or pertaining to pagans; relating to the worship or the
> worshipers of false goods; heathen; idolatrous, as, pagan
> tribes or superstitions.
> [1913 Webster]
According to Princeton University's WordNet (2.0) however, the
definition goes:
> pagan
> adj : not acknowledging the God of Christianity and Judaism and
> Islam [syn: heathen, heathenish, ethnic]
> n : a person who does not acknowledge your God [syn: heathen,
> gentile, infidel]
So according to Webster's definition, a pagan festival (such as
Yuletide) would indeed have been a religious one.
If you however follow the more contemporary WordNet, the word "pagan"
does ''not'' necessarily say anything about whether or not a pagan
festival and/or person is religious. It only says that the pagan does
NOT acknowledge ''your'' God (ie./and/or the God of Judaism,
Christianity or whatever).
I ''personally'' find that the Christmas of our present is a mostly
secular holiday. (I'm going by how the majority of people in the world
currently celebrate it.)
Interpretations on the secular or religious status of Yuletide may
differ. But then I didn't claim Yuletide to have been 100% secular. I
wrote:
> If (and only if) you consider Yuletide to have
been a religious
> holiday,
> it was a NON-Christian religious holiday. But AFAIK Yuletide was a
> seasonal festival in the first instance -- only possibly with
> associated
> (non-Christian) religious connotations in the second instance.
To sum up:
- One can argue about the religiousness of Yuletide.
- One can argue about whether or not Christmas is a religious holiday
today. (I think it's pretty secular, but that's only me.)
- What's certain though is that Christmas was extensively celebrated as
a Christian religious holiday for several centuries in between time.
- It's also certain that Yuletide, the original Christmas, was not
actually a Christian holiday.
-- ropers [[en:User:Ropers]]
www.ropersonline.com