--- Delirium <delirium(a)hackish.org> wrote:
> Look, you have not been a part of the Wikipedia community since early
> 2002, and now you reappear three years later talking about your
> importance in the "founding" of Wikipedia, pimping a book, and writing
> screeds about what's wrong with it while at the same time not actually
> participating in any of the policy discussions, and indeed explicitly
> saying you "don't have time" to actually discuss any of the issues [1].
> Even your brief reappearance here is apparently entirely to defend your
> claimed credit, not to actually discuss how to improve Wikipedia, an
> endeavor in which you claim to be interested.
Hmmm...yes. While I do feel a little uncomfortable about bad-mouthing seminal
figures in Wikipedia's history, I'm afraid to say that I've not found Larry
Sanger's recent comments about Wikipedia to be particularly profound at all
— certainly not warranting quite so much widespread publicity. For sure,
the Slashdot-posted "memoirs" of the early history of the project were quite
interesting, but there's something about the way they were written that left a
bad taste in my mouth. It would certainly help Sanger's credibility a lot,
particularly for people who've never encountered him on Wikipedia before, if he
did the following:
1) If he actually dirtied his hands and got involved with the project again.
Something doesn't fit right here. Larry Sanger claims he "still loves"
Wikipedia and "wants only the best for it" — well if so, you think he'd
actually contribute to the project from time-to-time, no? One of Sanger's
criticisms is about Wikipedia's treatment of experts. However, it's not clear
that Sanger himself is any longer an expert on Wikipedia, the project having
moved on after he left. What are Sanger's credentials for commenting on
Wikipedia's dynamics *today*, as opposed to how it was over three years ago?
2) If he stopped fighting so hard for his share of the "glory" of founding
Wikipedia, which seems a little unseemly, at least to me.
-- Matt
[[User:Matt Crypto]]
Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
We have the regret to say that during our (much disputed and very
friendly) contest for the 99 999th and the 100 000th articles on the
french wikipedia, the charge under which the server found itself,
ermmmm, just... resulted in the whole system blowing off somewhere
between 99 985 and 100 000 when we all ... errr, tried to save a couple
of "la '''sapotille''' est un [[fruit]]"
Depending on people, various messages appeared, but the most likely to
be understood by everyone is
"fr.wikipedia.org is unreachable"
We regret our loss and hope the french wikipedia will be able to
overcome it and the team to make it in the 100 000 big club.
Amen
Antfish
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Martijn de Waal <mw(a)dds.nl>
Date: Apr 20, 2005 6:23 PM
Subject: e-culture fair 2006 in the netherlands
To: zh.wikipedia(a)gmail.com
Cc: shizhao(a)gmail.com
Hello,
My name is Martijn de Waal, I am a writer and researcher from the
Netherlands. Currently I am doing some work for the E-culture Fair, a
grass roots conference on digital culture to be hosted in the
Netherlands in 2006.
The E-culture Fair is a biennial new media event in which new
technologies are showcased and the impact of technology on culture and
society is discussed. Goal of the e-culture conference is to bring
specialists together from culture, research, business and industry.
The event is organized by several Dutch think tanks and NGO's, and is
sponsored by the Dutch Government. Dutch Minister of Culture
(staatssecretaris) Medy van der Laan was one of the speakers at the
most recent E-culture Fair. We are very much interested in grassroots
inititaives such as Wikipedia or creative commons.
More information can be found at the website
http://www.e-culturefair.nl/site/index_en.html
For the 2006 edition of the e-culture fair, the organization is
turning its focus to the East, and is interested in learning about
interesting or promising new media initiatives in China. We are
looking for innovative products, applications, research projects, art
works, design, methods of storytelling, education or communication.
I will travel to Beijing and Shanghai in the first two weeks of may to
make some initial contacts, and I was wondering whether anyone at your
team would be around in those places during that period, whom I could
invite for a cup of coffee or tea?
Martijn de Waal
Curator China E-culture Fair 2006
http://www.e-culturefair.nl/site/index_en.html
Hi, could you please tell me where I should link an article of an
Italian daily newspaper that wrote an article about Wikipedia?
Somewhere on meta.wikimedia.org I suppose, but where?
Thank you!
Ciao, Sabine
I just read that on Angela's blog. Now, that indicates a ready and willing
market.
Is there a page detailing the process? Even one in German would be good to
see. How did they do the sifting? Did they do any sifting? etc.
Specifically, I'm wondering how possible it is to do something like this
for en: before MediaWiki 1.5 (when the ratings system goes live) and 1.6
(when we might actually do something with the data).
- d.
It is quite likely that both Larry and Jimmy's employee, Jeremy, both
had the idea of using a wiki for an encyclopedia, isn't it? Both of
them are intelligent people, working in the same environment at the
same point in (IT) history. And after all, once you understand what a
wiki is, it's not really THAT great a leap to make, is it? I clearly
remember sitting on the train one day in early 2002, even before I
knew about wiki-technology. Knowing what was possible with server-side
scripting I "invented" the concept of wiki-technology, and thought of
a use for it - an online database of the cities of the world, where
people from the particular cities could contribute with photos and
text. I still have the longhand notes somewhere, I think. Only a few
months later I discovered wiki-technology and Wikipedia, realising
that I had invented the wheel. Luckily I hadn't spent too much time
trying to figure out how to do it :). I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Most good ideas have already been thought of :).
Cheers, Bjarte Sørensen
[[:meta:User:BjarteSorensen]]
Just an announcement:
I started a blog about Wiki research: http://wm.sieheauch.de
I welcome comments and contributions also at
[[m:Research]] and [[m:Wiki Research Bibliography]].
I'm really looking forward to Wikimania - we have some interesting
submissions and Call for Papers is still going on.
Greetings,
Jakob
In response to Mark's message of Sat Apr 16 20:46:14
UTC 2005:
>Again I would like to point out that you are
emphasising >what is
>"right" or "correct". Why does that matter? Why
should >we care?
I am emphasising what is right because that is what we
should be striving towards. Just because any
Moldovans, who you seem to think are the only ones who
have an authoritative right to a say in this, haven't
complained, doesn't mean that the idea of is right.
Now, you're going to say again something along the
lines of "Yes, you keep on using the word right. Who
cares what's right". Well, we *should* care about
what's right! For example, we couldn't go ahead now
and form a Romanian Wikipedia without diacritical
symbols, just because the Romanian community supports
it, even when it is incorrect. In this example,
writing Romanian with no diacritics would be easier
and, hypothetically, let's say it would be supported
by the community, which , hypothetically, is made up
of 1 person. Does that mean we should actually
implement that proposal? Just because the "community"
agrees to something doesn't make it right, doesn't
mean that it's correct for, in the example, the
ro.wiki to be written without diacritic symbols.
The same goes for mo.wiki. There is basically *one*
Moldovan Cyrillic contributor, and you're saying that
just because he hasn't complained, then it's OK,
because no Moldovan contributor has so far complained.
Why? Because *there is no Moldovan wiki community*.
There is just one person! I think there might have
actually been a Moldovan contributor at ro.wiki which
is no longer active. But that's about all. For that
reason, we can't base ourselves here on "we do what
the Moldovans think, because they're the ones who
should have the most say." If we go by that principle,
then we won't get anywhere, because there isn't yet,
unfortunately, a Moldovan Wikipedia community.
So, as you keep on blaming the ro.wiki community for,
there's nothing wrong with us getting involved. The
same goes in your case - there's nothing wrong about
you getting involved, as a non-Moldovan, in this
issue. We *all*, as Wikimedia contributors, have a
right to involve ourselves in *all* Wikimedia issues
as long as we are adequately informed. And I think
both of us, and many other people who have given an
opinion, have done so in an informed, comprehensive
manner.
>There have been
>no complaints from actual Moldovans, only from
>Romanians, and they are
>all politically motivated.
I don't think you can actually say that all the
comments are politically motivated. If you read the
discussion page at ro.wiki, you will see that many
Romanians actually enforce the idea of having a
Moldovan Wikipedia, and recognise the need for one. I
don't think you can blame most of the community for
being either superficial or politically-motivated.
Most of us have said that - yes, having a mo.wiki is
OK, even in Cyrillic script, but it needs to be at a
separate subdomain, due to all the reasons that I've
mentioned in my numerous past messages.
>My solution is practical, and currently it is working
>fine.
True. By the way, don't think I'm trying to argue with
you just for the sake of it. Your POV is actually a
very legitimate one on this issue and it is the most
practical. I "admit" that as you said. And it's
working fine. At the moment. What I mean by at the
moment is that 1) it will get more problematic in the
future and it's better to solve the problems now and
2) you can't really call it working, because the is 1
contributor! There is basically no community yet.
I see there have been people (it may be the same user
as the Cyrillic one, actually I think it is) who have
already made Latin script contributions. Already it's
starting to become problematic. What happens if a user
comes and makes Latin script contributions? Should we
simply move them to ro.wiki? Or should we keep the
mo.wiki a biscriptal confusion?
There have been many cases where a single contributor
has started something, which is not technically right,
and then when a larger community came, the project had
to be moved somewhere. You must realise that by
putting only Cyrillic content at mo.wiki, we become
terribly biased towards that script? Why should
Wikipedia, the free, NPOV encyclopedia, be like that?
And why should we then have to change everything when
Moldovan Latin users come over and start adding
content to the mo.wiki?
>the only people who have a problem with it are
>Romanians who are trying to meddle in the affairs of
>the Moldovan
>Wikipedia for political reasons and replace the
>perfectly working
>status quo with some sort of cumbersome change that
>they say is
>technically correct, which will make the URL longer
>and require the
>assistance of a developer.
You're saying this as if it would require registering
a new domain, setting up a new interface and writing
new software! It's really not that hard to make a new
subdomain! It's being done all the time, when new
language projects are being launched. So what if we
require the assistance of a developer? I think that
you really are too practical - just for the sake of
easiness and practicality, it doesn't matter how wrong
something is, or how biased it is, you won't support
it just because it requires more work. I believe that
we must first be correct, then practical. Being
practical now will just cause more problems later on.
Finally, I'm not happy with the status quo. I've tried
until now numerous ways to negotiate, I started
writing on this mailing list, and yet nothing has
worked. The status quo has just been maintained, and
you haven't considered the point of view than anyone
else. Honestly, that's really frustrating. I mean,
I've written many messages that just basically say the
same thing over and over again -- we've covered no
ground here. And you can't say I haven't been
reasonable. I've proposed something that doesn't
denigrate Moldovan Cyrillic, that is perfectly fair to
it, gives it space to grow, but at the same time
doesn't put it in favour of Moldovan Latin. Yes, it's
practically harder, but I don't see anything
theoretically wrong with it. On the practical side, I
will go and contact a developer to do it if we reach
concensus. That's not that hard a move. Neither is the
whole setting up. It's not as if you now have to go
and waste a week's work on setting up a new subdomain!
__________________________________
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Hi,
at first sorry for my bad english i'm just a (german) student ;)
If I read/write somethings in the German wikipedia I have seen that much of the articles are to havy for kids and teenager with no special skills in the subjekt. So I get the idea for a special Wikipedia for kids and teenager! Its is like a Wikijunior Magazin but with the different that the Wiki I mean is a complete encyclopedia and not only one special topic! I would be managed a Wiki for this in German.
What do you think about the idea? It is possibel to realise it under the roof of the Wikimedia? If yes anyone here that would be help me?
pentiumforever
User:147.72.93.172/147.72.93.199 has for some time
been a troublesome presence on the Pittsburgh
Tribune-Review article. He has made some valid
points, but they are lost amid a torrent of claims of
libel, legal threats, and general rudeness. Earlier
today he removed a large amount of material from
Talk:Pittsburgh Tribune-Review without archiving and
replaced it with the words "Edited to allow more
space." I reverted and asked him not to do it again
on his user talk page. He blanked the entire page
this time. I warned him against vandalism and
reverted. Another blank, another warning. I blocked
at the third blanking of the talk page.
He has long claimed nearly everything someone posts to
the article or the talk page is libelous in some form
or another. I am surprised to learn from the headers
of the email David Gerard forwarded that apparently
the anon is Carl Prine, an award winning PTR reporter.
One would think a reporter wouldn't throw around
accusations of libel so casually. In any case, much
of the material is standard talk page arguing, and the
material removed includes a lengthy polite attempt by
User:KeithTyler to reason with Prine, something that I
can't imagine any reasonable person objecting to.
- Gamaliel
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