Hi!
I might have been a bit off with the English example.
I'm no expert so I can't tell how big a difference there is between the
English variations, and is any difficulty in understanding of an article is
caused by that.
Also I can't tell, would the peoples of the Balkan region really understand
each other if they all chose to speak their own language consistently
choosing "dialect" words over commons ones.
Anyway, its for the Serbs and Montenegrins to know if a similar system would
be okay for them. Also I can't tell if the two people can work together in
the same wiki. (From some of the messages posted here it seems the Serbian
isn't that open a community, but I can't tell how widespread the
anti-Montenegrin sentiment is in the community)
Also I don't think it would be fair to allow 3 dialects but deny a 4 , if a
mistake was made, why should the 4th "suffer" from it...
Of course there might be a dilemma, that whats a wiki worth if it will start
by importing all articles from the Croatian or Serbian wiki (thats what I
would do...), this makes creating a fork not a so good idea.
The solution could be purely technical, make it possible with advanced regex
dictionaries and user input to have all the dialect versions of an article.
Also improve the switching from Cyrillic script to Latin as there are many
places (especially talk pages), where parts of the text don't get
translated...
Bence Damokos
On 12/3/06, Birgitte SB <birgitte_sb(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
--- Bence Damokos <bdamokos(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi!
I am an outsider in this dispute, but I would like
to give my opinion on the
state of these four languages as I see them, after
learning for some time
Croatian, and having spoken with a friend who is
more knowledgable than me.
What I see is that Montenegrin uses the ijekavica
dialect of the so-called
Serbo-Croatian language (which I think is THE
artificial one from the 5
mentioned), while the Serbians use the ekavica
dialect. This makes every
second word different. Even though either is
acceptable, you wouldn't wanna
mix them in an article (as mixing British or
American spelling: no one would
really notice), it would stop your "train of
thought" to decode each woord
and decide which dialect it was written in.
Requiring the use of either one
would be unfair, and would violate the free speech
rights of either of them,
also it would lead to some more unnecessary tension.
Croatian uses latin script, and ijekavica (at least
the official dialect),
so Montenegrins could integrate there? Wrong.
Montenegrin has many words
borrowed from Turkish that Croatians might not
understand, or would
constantly replace with their Croatian counterparts,
or just remove from
articles.
The difference of words and dialect is a main
difference between Serbian in
Croatian. Apart from the dialet problem mentioned
with the Montenegrins,
Serbian language tends to use Western words by
transliterating it
phonetically into Serbian language, while Croatian
tends to invent their own
words. Compromise on this ground would either ignite
tension, or be a factor
in "deteriorating" Croatian language by introducing
foreign words, for which
there is already a Croatian version in use.
Bosnian: I'm no expert here, why this is a separate
language :), if not for
political reasons. I guess they have many Turkish
words too. Anyway, if
there is a Bosnian wiki, a Montenegrin one could
also be.
Also, if I'm correct Montenegro had its state
television in the Serbia and
Montenegro era, that was broadcast it Montenegrin
(language/dialect).
In conclusion, Serbo-Croatian was an invented
language, without machine
translation between the ijekavica/ekavica/ikavica
dialects choosing either
that is not the official in any a part of the region
would lead to tensions,
and the difference in words might also lead to
misunderstandings, or at
least heart national feelings if a "dialect version
of a word" is changed to
an other "for better understanding".
Anyway, I hope I didn't upset any one, and that I
wasn't factually wrong, or
misleading.
Regards, Bence Damokos
ps. OFF. why are there so many wikis in Italy?
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I believe there is misunderstang over how the
variations of English are handled on en.WP. There is
no mixing of the variations (which are more than just
spelling), and people would definately notice if there
was. The way it works is that in an article on
England, British conventions are used. In an article
on America, the American conventions are used. In an
article on Canada, Canadian conventions are used.
Whenever there is a general article common to all
areas (such as Dog) the original editor who started
the article chooses which conventions to use. No one
is allowed to go around changing the grammer and
spelling to their prefered standards on general
articles. In article where the title would be
different (i.e. Petrol/Gasoline) a redirect is made to
the original title. Of course people have not always
liked this method and have tried to go around changing
standards, but they are stopped and everyone moves on.
I don't know these languages myself and I could be
wrong here, but I do not see any significant
differences from the situation in English.
BirgitteSB
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