Wil, I have been following the conversation and I can feel your
good-hearted nature.
Please do not be offended when they say "wait" to you. They mean no harm to
you, just the opposite.
I know how frustrating it is to have to wait, because all of us have gone
through the same...
Just to give you an example of my experience, it took me almost a year
until I felt comfortable editing in my home project. Understanding the
subjective experience of editing is something you will not find in any
book, you have to go through it and then some opinions will make more sense
to you. It took me many more years until I ventured to bring up topics that
affect bigger communities. And now after ten years I am still learning...
just figure.
Patience is a very positive trait and we never have enough of it. They have
been giving it to you because they appreciate you, and if you give it back
to them they will appreciate you even more.
Welcome to the community and an internet hug for you!
Micru
On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 10:18 PM, Wil Sinclair <wllm(a)wllm.com> wrote:
Well, we were discussing IRC and my experience there
in this thread,
and many people were asking me to "wait." I find this interesting,
because some on Wikipediocracy also asked me to "wait," with the
significant exception that this was to "wait until I so something,
then come back." In this case, it was "wait until you've read these
articles and seen this stuff on-wiki, then come back." I agreed. They
then checked in with me regularly (I think most of them thought I was
going to bail), and once I had read the material I had agreed to read,
we resumed the discussion. It's all here: It's all here on this
thread:
http://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4531
But I think I've figured out a way for me to bring up topics without
worrying about my level of experience with Wikipedia/Wikimedia. I'll
start a new thread with my concerns and what I've come up with.
,Wil
On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 1:00 PM, Martijn Hoekstra
<martijnhoekstra(a)gmail.com> wrote:
We are all interested in hearing all sides of every story here, aren't
we? I'm starting to get the feeling that there are things that some
people on this list don't want *anyone* to discuss.
Which things, and which people are you aiming at, particularly?
--Martijn
> After all, you
> could simply ignore my messages or even filter them from your inbox,
> if you are so inclined. This impression has been troubling me greatly.
> Do you know that this is *precisely* what many on Wikipediocracy are
> saying about this list? Are they right?
>
> ,Wil
>
> On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Nathan <nawrich(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 1:07 PM, Wil Sinclair <wllm(a)wllm.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks, I wasn't aware I could do this. I'm assuming that it would
be
> >> obvious who was an employee at Wikimedia in the log, too. I posted
the
> >> following to Wikipediocracy a few
minutes ago:
> >>
> >> "
> >> I may have misread which page the rev was on, or I misunderstood the
> >> person who said s/he revdeleted it in thinking that it had been
> >> revdeleted in the previous few minutes. This is exactly why I prefer
> >> public recorded forums. Now no one can go back to clear up the
> >> confusion. For all I know, I might have to apologize for a
> >> misunderstanding, and it would really suck if I somehow
misrepresented
> >> things and didn't have any
opportunity to straighten things out.
> >>
> >> Of course, it is entirely on me. I knew that the IRC channels weren't
> >> logged, and that it was a bannable offense to log them (for those who
> >> aren't familiar with IRC, this essentially means that you aren't
> >> supposed to save conversations there; in most channels that's A-OK,
> >> but on all of the most used wikipedia channels it seems to be
> >> disallowed). Next time I have a concern, I will take it to
wikimedia-l
> >> or one of the other mailing lists.
As this example also shows, one
> >> can't be sure that the revs on a page within Wikimedia's wikis
> >> themselves won't be redacted after-the-fact. I'm not expressing an
> >> opinion about whether stuff should be redacted or on what grounds,
but
> >> I am asserting that it is possible
to do so.
> >> "
> >>
> >> There is a discussion about this issue there, as well. It can be
> >> followed at the link I posted earlier. Here's the last page of the
> >> discussion that includes the comment above:
> >>
>
http://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4680&p=96600#p…
> >>
> >> ,Wil
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Hi Wil,
> >
> > This is exactly why others have suggested that you slow down, and
focus
> on
> > learning the basics of the Wikimedia projects and movements before
> jumping
> > into the hottest, most controversial issues. It takes time to develop
the
> > understanding necessary to draw
conclusions, especially in areas most
> > likely to erupt into drama and heated exchanges.
> >
> > To wit, I don't believe it can even be determined if someone is
logging a
> > channel, and many people (including
Wikimedians) log all of their
> channels.
> > Several Wikimedia-related channels are publicly logged. Other channels
> > prohibit people from publishing logs.
> >
> > It's also quite common knowledge that revisions can be deleted (by any
> > administrator, where they remain viewable by administrators) or
> suppressed
> > altogether (by users with Oversight rights). I think if you
considered
it
> > with a full possession of the facts, you
would agree that this is good
> and
> > necessary.
> >
> > In any case, thank you Lila for your note! I appreciate that you have
> made
> > it clear you've seen the threads of the last few weeks and understand
the
> > concerns that posters have described.
> >
> > ~Nathan
> > _______________________________________________
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