After a month of on-list talk -- sometimes very heated, sometimes very
quiet -- Language committee has agreed about the next wording of the
part of the new policy [1] related to the simple languages:
* Can there be wikis in "simple" languages?
*: Yes, in principle. But two special criteria would need to be met: the
language should be a "world language" with many L2 users, and there must
be a reliable, published specification of the controlled language to be
used. Examples are [[w:en:Basic English|Basic English]] and
[[w:fr:Français fondamental|Français fondamental]]. (In reality it does
not appear that there ''are'' many controlled languages other then
English and French.)
In practice, it means that:
* It is likely that just Wikipedia in simple French would be approved.
If there are reliable and published specifications of other world
languages (Russian, Spanish, Arabic etc.), group interested in creating
project in simple language has to present it to the LangCom.
* It is likely that border cases would be discussed in Language
committee on case-by-case basis. For example, German is not a world
language, but at least discussion would be opened if strong arguments
would be given, including widely accepted definition of simple language.
* It is not a matter of LangCom would any Wikipedia (or any other
Wikimedia project) host project in corresponding simple language inside
of a separate namespace -- with or without specification.
This was intended to be reply to the list.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Projects in simple languages
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 21:12:16 +0100
From: Michael Everson <everson(a)evertype.com>
To: Milos Rancic <millosh(a)gmail.com>
On 06/20/2011 08:55 PM, David Gerard wrote:
> I have been around the Wikimedia projects since 2004. This is the very first time I have ever heard any official subset of English mentioned in any connection with the Simple English Wikipedia. Did I just miss past documentation to this effect? Was this part of its founding? When was Basic English first linked with Simple?
Evidently from the beginning.
http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_English_Wikipedia
Simple English Wikipedia is a Wikipedia encyclopedia, written in basic
English.[1]
http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_English
Even in the earliest revision of the main page
http://simple.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Main_Page&oldid=461 it
refers to controlled vocabulary of 1000-2000 words.
Ogden's Basic English was published in 1940. It's unlikely that those
who asked for simple.wikipedia.org were unaware of it.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
FYI :-)
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Erik Moeller <erik(a)wikimedia.org>
Date: Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 5:58 PM
Subject: Announcement: WMF engineering promotions and role changes
To: Wikimedia developers <wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Hi folks,
I’m pleased to announce the following promotions and role changes in
engineering, effective immediately.
* Rob Lanphier is the Director of Platform Engineering.
* Tomasz Finc is the Director of Mobile and Special Projects.
* Alolita Sharma is the acting Director of Features Engineering.
Alolita has gracefully agreed to take on this role, for which we’re
kicking off a full search process.
* Mark Bergsma is now the Lead Operations Architect, reporting to CT.
* Tim Starling is now the Lead Platform Architect, reporting to Rob.
I’ll explain a bit more what these roles mean below, but first, please
join me in congratulating Rob, Tomasz, Alolita, Mark and Tim! :-)
Let me also take this opportunity to thank Danese Cooper for helping
to build and professionalize the Wikimedia Foundation engineering
organization as Wikimedia’s CTO. She also set these changes in
motion, and our overall strategy is one that we’ve begun developing
and socializing together in the last few months.
Here’s how these roles fit together. The engineering department is
principally structured into four sub-departments, each headed by a
director who is the functional manager of all people within that
sub-department:
* Technical Operations - CT Woo: Keep Wikimedia Foundation sites and
services running, increase uptime and performance, support code
deployments, and ensure recoverability of data and services.
* Platform Engineering - Rob Lanphier: Maintain and support the
MediaWiki platform; ensure reliability, maintainability, and
performance of our software; lead the release management process; grow
and nurture the developer community and ecosystem.
* Features Engineering - Alolita Sharma (Acting): Advance Wikimedia’s
strategic priorities by focusing resources on specific feature
projects such as the visual editor, or interventions designed to
increase editor retention.
* Mobile and Special Projects - Tomasz Finc: Advance Wikimedia’s
mobile platform and ensure that mobile devices are fully considered
across the engineering development process; execute projects with
strong overlapping requirements (e.g. offline delivery of Wikimedia
content).
We’re also recognizing the importance of architectural engineering
leadership in the development of a mature engineering organization
(which also represents an additional career path for our distinguished
engineers beyond “become a manager”). The three architects - Tim, Mark
and Brion - will work together as follows:
* Brion Vibber, as Lead Software Architect, has key architectural
responsibility for getting MediaWiki ready to be the world’s leading
tool for mass collaboration, by enabling the development of new
technologies like the visual editor (his current priority), real-time
collaboration, improved discussion systems, etc. This also includes
architectural leadership to support bottom-up feature development.
Brion reports directly to me.
* Mark Bergsma, as Lead Operations Architect, is responsible for
creating and communicating the vision and roadmap for the
infrastructure needed to run all Wikimedia projects, for ensuring the
design/implementation of our operating environment is reliable,
scalable, supportable, secure and cost-effective, and for driving
cross-functional alignment, especially with other engineering
functions.
* Tim Starling, as Lead Platform Architect, is responsible for the
performance, stability, security and architectural cleanliness of the
MediaWiki platform. Tim is leading potentially transformative
engineering projects like the HipHop support in MediaWiki. He’s also a
key mentor to all MediaWiki developers and is keeping us honest while
we’re pursuing our feature dreams.
In addition, we’re considering the shape of product and project
management outside the Director-level leadership in the department.
Currently, Howie Fung (Senior Product Manager) and Dario Taraborelli
(Senior Research Analyst) are continuing to support our feature
development projects to ensure that 1) development is aligned with
strategic priorities, 2) we’re focusing the development on the needs
of the user, 3) we’re making data-driven decisions and working
effectively with the global wiki research community, 4) we’re engaging
with the Wikimedia editor and reader community on complex feature
development projects.
I’m taking on the role of VP of Engineering and Product Development,
on an interim basis for now. We’re not going to immediately hire
either for that role or a CTO role. Thanks to Mark, Tim and Brion, we
have very strong architectural leadership in the department. Moreover,
we’ve got more than enough disruptive change as an engineering
organization to absorb for now, so we’ve decided that it doesn’t make
sense to immediately bring in a new person to lead the department.
We may decide that it’ll make sense for me to continue in this role,
or that it’ll make sense to bring in a new person 6-12 months from
now, possibly in conjunction with further structural change.
What this means, simply put, is that I’ll be organizing and supporting
the work of the engineering department as a whole, with the directors,
the product managers, Brion and Dario reporting to me, and that’ll be
how we’ll be set up for the near future. My interest is to grow a
strong, visible leadership team that’ll be on the lists and wikis and
highly responsive to the community. I’ll be suspending most of my
non-engineering-related work for the time being.
I’ll be posting more about process improvements, further discussions
about intra-departmental structure, and so forth, in coming weeks.
I’ll also be sharing an updated org chart soon for those who care
about those kinds of things. ;-)
All the best,
Erik
--
Erik Möller
Deputy Director, Wikimedia Foundation
Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
--
Erik Möller
Deputy Director, Wikimedia Foundation
Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
Hi Wikimedians,
Just a quick note that this Thursday, June 23rd there will be an IRC office
hours with Sue Gardner at 17:00 UTC. We haven't set a topic yet, so please
feel free to come with your burning questions. As usual, documentation is on
Meta.[1]
We look forward to chatting. :)
--
Steven Walling
Fellow at Wikimedia Foundation
wikimediafoundation.org
1. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours
(forwarding to f-l)
---------- Forwarded message ----------
To:Wikibooks <textbook-l(a)wikimedia.org>, wikisource
<wikisource-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Dear Wikimedians --
A project to build a national public digital library in the US, the
"Digital Public Library of America", is asking for statements of
interest from people or groups who have ideas for what this might look
like -- and mean to create a prototype or detailed proposal over the
course of this summer.
Actual proposals, of whatever form, are due in September, but a
statement of interest is due by June 15. If you are interested in the
subject, or currently working on a project you could see being part of
such a public resource, you can submit a statement online:
http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/dpla/forms/statement-of-interest/
See below for background on the DPLA. While this group is focused on
a national project for a single country (formed by a consortium of US
libraries, foundations, and academics) , they are conscious of the
need to do something similar worldwide, and committed to making this
process and resulting tools as open and reusable as possible.
SJ
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: John Palfrey <jpalfrey(a)law.harvard.edu>
Date: Mon, May 23, 2011 at 10:20 AM
Subject: [berkmanfriends] DPLA Beta Sprint: Calling all Submitters!
To: "berkmanfriends(a)eon.law.harvard.edu" <berkmanfriends(a)eon.law.harvard.edu>
At the Digital Public Library of America, we've just announced a "Beta
Sprint" to gather creative ideas, models, and other innovations that
could play a role in the building of a DPLA. We'd love to see
submissions from members of this list, as we know many of you have
excellent thoughts on how this effort might take shape. Please find
the full announcement below, and let me, Rebekah Heacock, and/or Maura
Marx know if you have any questions or want to team up with one of the
groups that appear already to be forming to make a submission.
Best,
John
--
The Digital Public Library of America (DPLA) Steering Committee is
delighted to announce today a Beta Sprint that aims to surface
innovations that could play a part in the building of a digital public
library.
The Beta Sprint seeks, ideas, models, prototypes, technical tools,
user interfaces, etc. – put forth as a written statement, a visual
display, code, or a combination of forms – that demonstrate how the
DPLA might index and provide access to a wide range of broadly
distributed content. The Beta Sprint also encourages development of
submissions that suggest alternative designs or that focus on
particular parts of the system, rather than on the DPLA as a whole.
The DPLA Steering Committee is leading the first concrete steps toward
the realization of a large-scale digital public library that will make
the cultural and scientific record available to all. The DPLA planning
initiative grew out of an October 2010 meeting at the Radcliffe
Institute for Advanced Study, which brought together over 40
representatives from foundations, research institutions, cultural
organizations, government, and libraries to discuss best approaches to
building a national digital library. Subsequent workshops in March and
May have addressed the content, scope, and technical aspects of a
DPLA.
“As the DPLA planning initiative moves forward, we are optimistic that
the DPLA community and public can help us think about what a DPLA
might look like, in practical – and perhaps unexpected – ways, as
platform, architecture, interface, and beyond,” said John Palfrey,
chair of the DPLA Steering Committee. “We hope geeks and librarians,
especially, will join forces to develop beta submissions in support of
this initiative.”
“The Beta Sprint is where the dream of a seamless and comprehensive
digital library for every person begins to grapple, technically and
creatively, with what has already been accomplished and what still
need to be developed,” said Doron Weber, Vice President of Programs at
the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation and a Steering Committee member. “The
DPLA represents the broadest coalition of stakeholders ever assembled
who are dedicated to free and universal access to knowledge for all,
and the Beta Sprint will help us kick off an 18-month program to
construct, brick by digital brick, this beautiful new edifice.”
For inspiration, Beta Sprint participants might consider the general
approach taken by initiatives whose leaders are on the DPLA Steering
Committee, such as the Internet Archive, Public.Resource.Org, the
Hathi Trust, American Memory, and others, as well as the Europeana
project and the national digital libraries in the Netherlands, Norway,
and South Korea.
Submission instructions and more information are available at
http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/dpla, where you can also watch a short
video about the Beta Sprint. Statements of interest must be received
by June 15, 2011. Final submissions will be due by September 1, 2011.
A review panel appointed by the Steering Committee and composed of
experts in the fields of library science, information management, and
computer science will review Beta Sprint submissions in early
September. Creators of the most promising betas will be invited to
present their ideas to interested stakeholders and community members
during a public meeting in Washington, DC.
# # #
About the Digital Public Library of America
The Digital Public Library of America (DPLA) planning initiative is an
impact-oriented research effort that unites leaders from all types of
libraries, museums, and archives with educators, industry, and
government to define the vision for a digital library in service of
the American public. The DPLA Secretariat is located at the Berkman
Center for Internet & Society at Harvard University; the Steering
Committee comprises library and foundation leaders across the nation.
More information can be found at
http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/research/dpla.
About the Berkman Center for Internet & Society
The Berkman Center for Internet & Society at Harvard University is a
research program founded to explore cyberspace, share in its study,
and help pioneer its development. Founded in 1997, through a generous
gift from Jack N. and Lillian R. Berkman, the Center is home to an
ever-growing community of faculty, fellows, staff, and affiliates
working on projects that span the broad range of intersections between
cyberspace, technology, and society. More information can be found
athttp://cyber.law.harvard.edu/.
Digital Public Library of America Steering Committee
Paul Courant, Harold T. Shapiro Professor of Public Policy and Dean of
Libraries at the University of Michigan
Robert Darnton, Carl H. Pforzheimer University Professor and Director
of the Harvard University Library
Carla Hayden, Chief Executive Officer of the Enoch Pratt Free Library
(Baltimore, Maryland)
Charles Henry, President of the Council on Library and Information
Resources (CLIR)
Luis Herrera, City Librarian for the City and County of San Francisco
Susan Hildreth, Director of the Institute for Museum and Library Services
Brewster Kahle, Founder of the Internet Archive
Michael A. Keller, Ida M. Green University Librarian, Director of
Academic Information Resources at Stanford University
Carl Malamud, President, Public.Resource.Org
Deanna Marcum, Associate Librarian for Library Services at the Library
of Congress
Maura Marx, Berkman Center Fellow and Executive Director, Open Knowledge Commons
Jerome McGann, John Stewart Bryan University Professor at the
University of Virginia
John Palfrey, Faculty Co-Director at the Berkman Center; Henry N. Ess
III Professor of Law and Vice Dean of Library and Information
Resources at Harvard Law School (chair)
Peggy Rudd, Executive Director/State Librarian of the Texas State
Library and Archives Commission
Amy E. Ryan, President of the Boston Public Library
Donald Waters, Program Officer for Scholarly Communications and
Information Technology at the Andrew W. Mellon Foundation
Doron Weber, Vice President, Programs at the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation
Contact:
Rebekah Heacock
Project Coordinator
Berkman Center for Internet & Society
rheacock(a)cyber.law.harvard.edu
----------
You are subscribed to the Berkman Fellows and Friends discussion list.
Mailing list options: http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/lists/info/berkmanfriends
Mailing list members: http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/lists/review/berkmanfriends
Please mind that emails sent through this list are considered public unless
otherwise noted.
--
Maura Marx
Fellow, Berkman Center for Internet and Society
Executive Director, Open Knowledge Commons
**********************************************************
direct: 617-384-9131
mobile: 617-835-3510
email: maura(a)knowledgecommons.org
--
Samuel Klein identi.ca:sj w:user:sj +1 617 529 4266
--
Samuel Klein identi.ca:sj w:user:sj +1 617 529 4266
Forwarding the update to foundation-l.
Amazing news -- congratulations to the Malayalam Wikisourcerors for
this work and its success.
As far as I know, this is the first offline Wikisource compilation to
be released as a CD.
It would be interesting to see something similar with translations of
essential classics into many languages.
Sam.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Shiju Alex <shijualexonline(a)gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 1:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] [Foundation-l] Announcement: Selected
Books from Malayalam Wikisource on CD released
To: Wikimedia India Community list <wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Dear All,
We completed one week of Malayalam Wikisource offline release. Here is
some statistics that we have: (Thanks to Jyothis for compiling this)
Hits to the ISO image : 46,922 (this is just number of hits. This does
not mean that all 46,922 hits lead to complete/successful downloads.
We assume at least 70-80% of those hits would be complete downloads.
3,15,274 hits for mlwiki.in- the site hosting iso image and online
version of Offline(Yes! :) ) on June 12.
4,30,959 on June 13th
2,30,985 on June 14th
1,04,280 on June 15th
Yesterday we have started a torrent link also for the ISO image
(http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/6477957). So downloads are happening
in that way also now.
Here are the links by which you can access Malayalam wikisource offline release.
iso Image
Torrent link
Online browsing
Remember, last year the download count of Malayalam wikipedia offline
version 1.0 one week after the release was around 5000.
We found that the interest in Malayalam Wikisource offline is more
than that of Malayalam Wikipedia offline.
Shiju Alex
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 12:35 PM, Arjuna Rao Chavala
<arjunaraoc(a)googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 10:31 PM, Jyothis E <jyothis.e(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Dear fellow Wikimedians,
>>
>> With great pleasure, Malayalam Wikimedia Community announced its 2011 CD
>> project "Selected Books from Malayalam Wikisource on CD - 1.0" at the 4th
>> annual Wiki Meetup in Kannur, Kerala.
>> --cut--
>
> Congratulations! I am happy at the level of engagement in Malayalam community, which contributes to these kind of firsts in off-line access year after year.
>
> Best wishes
> Arjun
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list
> Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
>
_______________________________________________
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list
Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
--
Samuel Klein identi.ca:sj w:user:sj +1 617 529 4266
Hello all,
I hope you have all heard the news of the election results. (If not, they
can be found here:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Board_elections/2011/Results/en )
Since the election is over I have started a post mortem page on Meta to
evaluate the election: what was good, what was bad (and how can it be
approved), etc. As always, all input is appreciated, just add it to the
page. :-)
--
mvh
Jon Harald Søby <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jon_Harald_S%C3%B8by>
It's now the afternoon of the 17th (UTC), and this list—of which I
have the dubious distinction of being custodian—hasn't seen a single
thread about the WMF board election results.
I'm honestly not sure if I should be proud of or disappointed with you
guys. In any case, I beg your forgiveness when I myself ask:
What are the results, and why haven't they been released yet?
Austin
It is indeed a bit late for having results, I just hope it doesn't depend from
the fact they are recounting the votes in Florida...
:-D
Ferdinando Scala
----- Messaggio originale -----
Da: "foundation-l-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org"
<foundation-l-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
A: foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Inviato: Ven 17 giugno 2011, 14:00:05
Oggetto: foundation-l Digest, Vol 87, Issue 48
Send foundation-l mailing list submissions to
foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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You can reach the person managing the list at
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of foundation-l digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: IRC office hours to discuss article feedback tool
(Steven Walling)
2. content ownership in different projects (Amir E. Aharoni)
3. Re: content ownership in different projects (Strainu)
4. Re: content ownership in different projects (Amir E. Aharoni)
5. Re: content ownership in different projects (Strainu)
6. Re: content ownership in different projects (Strainu)
7. Re: content ownership in different projects (Lodewijk)
8. Election results? (Austin Hair)
9. Re: content ownership in different projects (David Gerard)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 10:05:45 -0700
From: Steven Walling <swalling(a)wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] IRC office hours to discuss article
feedback tool
To: wikien-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org, foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Message-ID: <BANLkTinkUymcGGDUNrCO-_a9ROsR_NLQBQ(a)mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 2:59 PM, Steven Walling <swalling(a)wikimedia.org>wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I just wanted to announce that this Thursday the 16th at 18:00 UTC, there
> will be an IRC office hours concerning the article feedback tool which is
> currently in experimental partial deployment on English Wikipedia.[1]
>
> I'll be moderating mainly for Erik M?ller, but hopefully we'll be joined by
> most of the Foundation staff who've contributed to this feature.
>
> Just to clarify, we want to stick to two general topics:
>
> 1. The strategic goals the feature aims to address. In other words, its
> purpose.
> 2. Plans for developing and deploying it further.
>
> If you have bugs to report or specific design feedback, as always Bugzilla
> and MediaWiki.org are respectively the best places to discuss those two
> things. For the office hours we'd like to stick to a broader explanation of
> the feature and its future.
>
> As always documentation for IRC office hours is on Meta.[3]
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Steven Walling
> Fellow at Wikimedia Foundation
> wikimediafoundation.org
>
> 1. Feature documentation:
>http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Article_feedback<http://www.mediaiwiki.org/wiki/Article_feedback>
>
> 2. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours
>
Just a reminder that this is happening in about an hour.
--
Steven Walling
Fellow at Wikimedia Foundation
wikimediafoundation.org
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 13:50:38 +0300
From: "Amir E. Aharoni" <amir.aharoni(a)mail.huji.ac.il>
Subject: [Foundation-l] content ownership in different projects
To: foundation-l <foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikCC1k1QWE9rmPAq58Qnoxq74A5NQ(a)mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
The problem of content ownership hits any wiki at some point.
In the English Wikipedia it is governed by a policy called "WP:OWN"
[1]. There's a similar policy in the Hebrew Wikipedia. Is this policy
any different in other projects?
I am asking, because i agree with the English Wikipedia's policy in
principle, but the reality is that sometimes instead of helping people
write together, this policy drives people away from the project -
people who could be very positive contributors, but who don't like
their contributions edited by others without being asked. So i am
wondering: maybe en.wp and he.wp can learn something from other
languages here?
Thank you,
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Ownership_of_articles
--
Amir Elisha Aharoni ? ?????? ????????? ??????????
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
"We're living in pieces,
?I want to live in peace." - T. Moore
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 14:08:41 +0300
From: Strainu <strainu10(a)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] content ownership in different projects
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
<foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=PQDF_tpQo+r-aJ+46ah-o=QDWQQ(a)mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
I think that such a policy could not be fundamentally different in
other languages, since they all have the same license. However, the
wording could be improved, for instance by explaining WHY one cannot
consider himself as the owner of an article: by accepting the CC-BY-SA
license, one gives up a significant amount of the rights and control
offered by copyright laws. And this is not only from a legal POV, this
is also true from a common sense perspective: more people approaching
a problem often lead to better result than a single individual trying
to solve that problem.
>From what I see, presenting the rule, but not the reasons behind it,
is the main problem of the English version of WP:OWN.
Strainu
2011/6/17 Amir E. Aharoni <amir.aharoni(a)mail.huji.ac.il>:
> The problem of content ownership hits any wiki at some point.
>
> In the English Wikipedia it is governed by a policy called "WP:OWN"
> [1]. There's a similar policy in the Hebrew Wikipedia. Is this policy
> any different in other projects?
>
> I am asking, because i agree with the English Wikipedia's policy in
> principle, but the reality is that sometimes instead of helping people
> write together, this policy drives people away from the project -
> people who could be very positive contributors, but who don't like
> their contributions edited by others without being asked. So i am
> wondering: maybe en.wp and he.wp can learn something from other
> languages here?
>
> Thank you,
>
> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Ownership_of_articles
>
> --
> Amir Elisha Aharoni ? ?????? ????????? ??????????
> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
> "We're living in pieces,
> ?I want to live in peace." - T. Moore
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 14:29:22 +0300
From: "Amir E. Aharoni" <amir.aharoni(a)mail.huji.ac.il>
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] content ownership in different projects
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
<foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimVSRp21yK7mGeJAgN5aEk3RKpb9Q(a)mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
2011/6/17 Strainu <strainu10(a)gmail.com>:
> I think that such a policy could not be fundamentally different in
> other languages, since they all have the same license. However, the
> wording could be improved, for instance by explaining WHY one cannot
> consider himself as the owner of an article: by accepting the CC-BY-SA
> license, one gives up a significant amount of the rights and control
> offered by copyright laws.
It's not so much about CC-BY-SA as it is about the fact that it's a
wiki, where content is constantly changed by different people. This
breaks the usual idea of authorship and makes quite a lot of people
terribly uncomfortable and sometimes even violent. It's unpleasant,
but i understand how their feel and i want to find a way to work with
them.
But since you mention licensing, one possible solution to this problem
that i though of is to suggest such people write their content on some
other website where others can't change their text, but to release it
as CC-BY-SA, so Wikipedia would be able to use. That could be a good
use case for a project like Knol, which was advertised as "Wikipedia
killer" once, but didn't grow much. Used wisely, these Wikipedia and
Knol could actually help each other grow. This would cause forking, of
course, but forking isn't really bad - a forked freely-licensed
article is better than no freely-licensed article.
This solution is far from perfect, of course, because many people want
Their articles on The Wikipedia, not on some other non-notable
website...
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 14:41:29 +0300
From: Strainu <strainu10(a)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] content ownership in different projects
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
<foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinU7jGzefd_jsoik2PzPnp7Q68kmw(a)mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
2011/6/17 Amir E. Aharoni <amir.aharoni(a)mail.huji.ac.il>:
> 2011/6/17 Strainu <strainu10(a)gmail.com>:
>> I think that such a policy could not be fundamentally different in
>> other languages, since they all have the same license. However, the
>> wording could be improved, for instance by explaining WHY one cannot
>> consider himself as the owner of an article: by accepting the CC-BY-SA
>> license, one gives up a significant amount of the rights and control
>> offered by copyright laws.
>
> It's not so much about CC-BY-SA as it is about the fact that it's a
> wiki, where content is constantly changed by different people. This
> breaks the usual idea of authorship and makes quite a lot of people
> terribly uncomfortable and sometimes even violent. It's unpleasant,
> but i understand how their feel and i want to find a way to work with
> them.
>
Well, a wiki promotes a certain way of collaborating, but that is not
always sufficient. Think about a CC-BY-NC-ND wiki. Theoretically, one
could only add content to that wiki, not edit what has already been
written. Also, there are many ? wikis, used only as CMSs, not to
collaborate. That's why I believe that WP:OWN would be much harder to
justify if we wouldn't be using CC-BY-SA.
Anyhow, my previous email presents a problem seen in many policies on
multiple languages. Experienced wikimedians refer to policies with
ease, by using shortcuts and assuming that the discussion partner
knows what the policy is about. More often than not, this is not the
case. This problem has been raised many times before and will probably
be raised again in the future. It is in no way specific to WP:OWN.
Strainu
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 14:44:13 +0300
From: Strainu <strainu10(a)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] content ownership in different projects
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
<foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimaKSK8XX=UzqaSJRBmFAqBsT+L+w(a)mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
2011/6/17 Strainu <strainu10(a)gmail.com>:
> Think about a CC-BY-NC-ND wiki. Theoretically, one
> could only add content to that wiki, not edit what has already been
> written.
Actually, I'm not even sure you could add content to articles on a
CC-BY-NC-ND wiki. Would have to check with a lawyer...
Strainu
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 13:50:03 +0200
From: Lodewijk <lodewijk(a)effeietsanders.org>
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] content ownership in different projects
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
<foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikoGT-ww+cmeFNKoqdL27f82_ZR7w(a)mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I guess that Amir was rather referring to the cultural aspect than the legal
aspect. Even if you are legally allowed to change something, that doesnt
mean the original author likes it. I assume that all Wiki projects have this
culture in them, that nobody "owns" an article - this doesn't mean however
that there are no exceptions (people who think they are exceptions or
policies allowing temporary exceptions to be able to make a nice draft - for
example in ones own usernamespace).
Amir, is there a specific background that you are thinking of which is why
you are asking this? Maybe that helps people answering your question.
Best,
Lodewijk
2011/6/17 Strainu <strainu10(a)gmail.com>
> 2011/6/17 Strainu <strainu10(a)gmail.com>:
> > Think about a CC-BY-NC-ND wiki. Theoretically, one
> > could only add content to that wiki, not edit what has already been
> > written.
>
> Actually, I'm not even sure you could add content to articles on a
> CC-BY-NC-ND wiki. Would have to check with a lawyer...
>
> Strainu
>
> _______________________________________________
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> foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 13:53:34 +0200
From: Austin Hair <adhair(a)gmail.com>
Subject: [Foundation-l] Election results?
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
<foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikkUaEqwnqF-T_=AwNGm9WPDO+kmQ(a)mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
It's now the afternoon of the 17th (UTC), and this list?of which I
have the dubious distinction of being custodian?hasn't seen a single
thread about the WMF board election results.
I'm honestly not sure if I should be proud of or disappointed with you
guys. In any case, I beg your forgiveness when I myself ask:
What are the results, and why haven't they been released yet?
Austin
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 12:56:44 +0100
From: David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] content ownership in different projects
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
<foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=ZNc+mU57ZwPjbCjZYxzSJyVXtrg(a)mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On 17 June 2011 12:29, Amir E. Aharoni <amir.aharoni(a)mail.huji.ac.il> wrote:
> That could be a good
> use case for a project like Knol, which was advertised as "Wikipedia
> killer" once, but didn't grow much.
Minor note: as far as I know, *no-one* from Knol/Google ever claimed
it had anything to do with WIkipedia. The entire notion appeared to me
to have arisen in the technical press in the week after Knol's
announcement, apparently on the basis that both were written by
unfiltered contributors, which was still a radical notion to the press
at the time. The comparison stuck, but I know of no evidence that that
was the intention.
- d.
------------------------------
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