---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 12:08 PM
Subject: Re:
To: Mohsen Salek <mohsensalek(a)gmail.com>
Hoi,
You will have noticed that even though for all intends and purposes a
project like Wikinews is to be applauded for the Farsi community, I have not
changed the status of the proposal to "eligible". The problem I have is that
the fa code is ambiguous and I have informed my fellow members of the
language committee that as far as I am concerned the code for a new project
in Farsi should be "pes". The reason for this is that fa or fas has been
made a macro language, this macro language includes Dari or "prs".
Now in the language committee there are some who disagree with me. I told
them that I will not change projects administratively unless the codes used
are unambiguous. As I am not the only member of the language committee,
those members who disagree with me could have changed the status..
So the situation is:
- I am in full support of a Farsi Wikinews project
- There is a situation with the code used for Farsi
I am interested to learn what you think of this impasse.
NB Farsi is not the only language that has this problem..
Thanks,
GerardM
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 7:03 AM, Mohsen Salek <mohsensalek(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> hi Gerard
> i am mardetanha <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Mardetanha> also you
> may know me from meta.
> As matter of fact i want you to check my request here
> <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikinews_Persian>
> .
>
> I have talked to community and we are ready to have our wikinews .
>
> Thanks in advance
> mohsen
>
>
سلام،
خواستم پیشنهاد بدم که یک «دفتر یادبود» در ویکی فارسی درست کنیم و در بعضی اتفاقات یا مناسبتهایی مهم یا آنها که عموم کاربران دوست دارند، در آن یادداشت بنویسند. میتوان شروع این دفتر یادبود را به زنده یاد خسرو شکیبایی اختصاص داد و یامثلا بطور ثابت هر ساله در عید نوروز هرکس مایل بود، دوسه خطی در آن بنویسد. البته اگر قرار باشد که سر هر صفحه این «دفتر یادبود» بحث و جدل درگیرد و کاربران بهم انواع برچسبهای سیاسی و مذهبی پرت نمایند. ترجیح میدهم پیشنهادم را پس بگیرم.؛) با احترام. صادق بهرامی.
_________________________________________________________________
Discover the new Windows Vista
http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=windows+vista&mkt=en-US&form=QBRE
Hi, I hope all subscribers reading this list are fine.
Please let me shortly mention what are the next steps.
For now: please do not start to move the articles. What I need as an
answer from the fa.wikipedia community is a yes or no that shows if the
community of fa.wikipedia would like to work on the articles. This means
we can propose it as a fact and not a potential way of doing things
without a definite answer. If your answer is no, or if we don't get an
answer we will unfortunately have no real control about how things are
going to go - that is: external people then could/would do this and be
paid. Eventually I will know who they are since it is likely that I will
get the PM also this time, but: this means that we just have to go the
way our donor prefers and not our way.
We have a conference call with the donor during the next days and it
would be helpful if we had an answer by the community.
As I already said: I would really like to see it if the fa.wikipedia
community takes over since it is about your wikipedia, well also the
donor reads it and likes it, otherwise he would not invest there.
So please let me know.
Thanks and have a nice Sunday!
Sabine
--
p.s. The fundraiser of the Wikimedia Foundation will start soon ... stay tuned :-)
Knowledge is a human right. Help to protect it. Donate for Wikipedia.
http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Fundraising
Begin forwarded message:
> From: Sabine Cretella <scretella(a)wikimedia.org>
> Date: September 27, 2007 12:49:03 AM GMT+03:30
> To: anthere(a)wikimedia.org
> Cc: Erik Moeller <erik(a)wikimedia.org>, Sandra Ordonez
> <sordonez(a)wikimedia.org>, Sue Gardner <sgardner(a)wikimedia.org>,
> Cary Bass <cbass(a)wikimedia.org>, Hessam Armandeh
> <armandeh(a)gmail.com>, Gerard Meijssen
> <gerard.meijssen(a)openprogress.org>
> Subject: Re: fa.wikipedia and me wearing two hats this time
>
> Hi Anthere,
>
> Let's see if I get it right this time
>>
>> I guess my question was not clear... Let me say it differently.
>> What will the donor get in exchange of giving the money ? Will he
>> name the articles he wants improved ? Will he have a say on the
>> final articles ? Will he get a link to a certain website as a
>> "thank you" ?
>> In short, what does he gain from the deal ? How much control does
>> he have ?
>>
>> If the donor wants to be publicly mentionned, how will that happen ?
>>
>> If I understand well, you are not waiting anything from WMF ?
>> Simply informing us ? Right ?
> The donor will get the already translated articles in the main
> namespace with the links like indicated. The list of articles +
> links to them can be found here:
> http://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%88%DB%8C%DA%A9%DB%8C%E2%80%8C%D9%BE
> %D8%AF%DB%8C%D8%A7:%D9%BE%D8%B1%D9%88%DA%98%D9%87%D9%94_%D9%85%D8%AA
> %D8%B1%D8%AC%D9%85%D8%A7%D9%86
>
> The only thing to be checked is that the articles are moved +
> present the links as requested. Of course we are aware of the fact
> that the articles are going to be edited by the community and
> therefore eventually changed, but that is what happens to every
> Wikipedia article, so that is fine.
>
> He will not be mentioned, he will not get any link. The donor does
> not want to be publicly mentioned.
>
> As to control: the control about the articles remains with
> fa.wikipedia - that is only natural since any Wikipedia works this
> way - there cannot be any control by a single person and the donor
> knows this.
>
> And yes, we are only informing you in order to not create problems.
>
> Does this help?
>
> Thanks and have a great evening!
>
> Cheers, Sabine
>
>
Begin forwarded message:
> From: Florence Devouard <anthere(a)wikimedia.org>
> Date: September 27, 2007 12:30:09 AM GMT+03:30
> To: Sabine Cretella <scretella(a)wikimedia.org>
> Cc: Erik Moeller <erik(a)wikimedia.org>, Sandra Ordonez
> <sordonez(a)wikimedia.org>, Sue Gardner <sgardner(a)wikimedia.org>,
> Cary Bass <cbass(a)wikimedia.org>, Hessam Armandeh
> <armandeh(a)gmail.com>, Gerard Meijssen
> <gerard.meijssen(a)openprogress.org>
> Subject: Re: fa.wikipedia and me wearing two hats this time
> Reply-To: anthere(a)wikimedia.org
>
> Sabine Cretella wrote:
>> Hi, I will write inbetween the lines :-)
>> Florence Devouard schrieb:
>>>
>>> I am sorry if I appear a bit obtuse, but I am not sure I fully
>>> understand what the proposal is. Can you clarify ?
>>>
>>> From what I understand
>>> 1) 147 articles were translated in farsi, from english wikipedia,
>>> by two professional translators, who were paid by Open Progress
>>> 2) the translated articles were not put in the main space, but
>>> set up in a separate namespace.
>>> (this was about a year ago. I remember there were some
>>> disagreements from the fa community, who did not want to accept
>>> the articles)
>>>
>>> 3) a donor wants to give 1470 EUR (more or less) to WMF, to make
>>> sure the articles would be completed (with links) and moved to
>>> the main space
>>>
>>> What I do not understand is
>>> A) do you expect the WMF to pay 10 euros to the translators to
>>> move and complete the articles ?
>> No Open Progress will receive the money and it will be paid to WMF
>> after conclusion of the move and insertion of links.
>>> B) do you expect the WMF to pay some editors to move and complete
>>> the articles ?
>> No WMF does not have to do anything - this mail was just to inform
>> you about what is going on. We don't want to do things without you
>> knowing about it.
>>> C) do you expect the move to happen all by itself, and WMF simply
>>> keep the donation ?
>> Open Progress wants to co-operate with fa.wikipedia in this case.
>> This means we agree on a feasable period of time in which things
>> should be done - for example one month. What is done after that
>> period is going to be paid for - what not: well, that than depends
>> on who wants to donate the money.
>>> D) something else ?
>>>
>>> In short, will someone be paid ?
>> WMF will get money in terms of a donation if we can co-operate
>> with fa.wikipedia. Another solution for the donor could be to pay
>> people outside even not through us, something we would like to
>> avoid. co-operation brings better results.
>>> By who ?
>> Open Progress will receive the money from the donor and will pay
>> it then to the WMF.
>>> Who will coordinatate the move and completion ?
>> Open Progress together with the fa.wikipedia community.
>>> Who will decide the job is well done ?
>> We have various people who can look at it - among these one person
>> in the donor's office and of course the translators who originally
>> did the job - of course we can also contact some more people in
>> universities etc. I suppose that if we have a close co-operation
>> with fa.wikipedia and Hessam things will simply go smoothly. I
>> mean that after having had not so nice discussions with Hessam in
>> the past and having had also very positive ones on the other hand
>> I know him good enough to be sure that we will get a good job on
>> the way since he will simply talk if there is anything that does
>> create a problem. That is: I trust him to do really good in this.
>>> Should the links be "controlled" by the donor ?
>> Well the links are quite easy to control - even for people not
>> speaking Persian. You have the list of incoming wikilinks by
>> clicking on "What links here" and one can easily see the blue
>> outgoing links and just count if there are three or eight. Even I
>> could do that and probably I will be asked to do it.
>
> Hello,
>
> I guess my question was not clear... Let me say it differently.
> What will the donor get in exchange of giving the money ? Will he
> name the articles he wants improved ? Will he have a say on the
> final articles ? Will he get a link to a certain website as a
> "thank you" ?
> In short, what does he gain from the deal ? How much control does
> he have ?
>
> If the donor wants to be publicly mentionned, how will that happen ?
>
> If I understand well, you are not waiting anything from WMF ?
> Simply informing us ? Right ?
>
> Best
>
> Ant
>
>>> Who is paying ? Open Progress or WMF ? What is Open Progress role
>>> here ?
>> Open Progress has just a co-ordinating role. We will, also in
>> future have situations when there is funding through a donor who
>> wants to get certain things done and instead of involving people
>> from outside we would very much like to reach the situation that
>> instead of paying single people the money can go to the WMF as a
>> donation. The donor may be a person or organisation that wants to
>> remian anonymous or a person or organisation that can be publicly
>> mentioned. It is one of many ways to get funding on the way - this
>> is one of the first experiences with it, for the WMF and for Open
>> Progess. We should try to make it a positive experience for all by
>> co-operating in the best way possible.
>> We will have a meeting on Friday morning concerning this. I am
>> obviously involved since I co-ordinated the project last year. It
>> would be great if we could already give the OK for a "we can do it
>> by co-operating with fa.wikipedia".
>> Does this help? Please don't hesitate to ask further questions if
>> something is still not clear. Often things might seem obvious to
>> me, but they are not too all.
>> Thanks and have a great day!
>> Ciao, Sabine
>
Begin forwarded message:
> From: Sue Gardner <sgardner(a)wikimedia.org>
> Date: September 26, 2007 2:08:04 AM GMT+03:30
> To: anthere(a)wikimedia.org
> Cc: Sabine Cretella <scretella(a)wikimedia.org>, Erik Moeller
> <erik(a)wikimedia.org>, Sandra Ordonez <sordonez(a)wikimedia.org>, Cary
> Bass <cbass(a)wikimedia.org>, Hessam Armandeh <armandeh(a)gmail.com>,
> Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)openprogress.org>
> Subject: Re: fa.wikipedia and me wearing two hats this time
>
> Florence Devouard wrote:
>> Sabine Cretella wrote:
>>> Just a short flashback to what happened - Anthere, Erik and
>>> Sandra already know about this, but I don't know if Sue and Cary
>>> know - but since they also deal with the fundraiser I would like
>>> to inform them as well.
>>>
>>> Last year Open Progress received a project for the creation of
>>> contents for fa.wikipedia. Preparation time was very short, so
>>> the only viable way then was to translate articles from
>>> en.wikipedia. This was done. There were of course some
>>> discussions with the community and in a chat with Anthere, Erik,
>>> two of the translators (Kurosh and Reza), Hessam and another
>>> wikipedian from fa.wikipedia, Gerard and me we agreed that the
>>> articles were uploaded in a special namespace on fa.wikipedia.
>>> The articles are there.
>>>
>>> Now we have the situation that we have a donor who would pay an
>>> amount of 10 EUR in donations to the WMF if the community of
>>> fa.wikipedia looks at the articles, changes what needs changing,
>>> adds three incoming links and three outgoing links (blue links) -
>>> for 5 further blue outgoing links 1 EUR per article would be
>>> added. We would like to avoid to work with people who are not in
>>> wikimedia community here - and if possible also in future.
>>> Therefore we believe that this is a way how the community can
>>> freely work on articles without feeling that something is imposed
>>> from outside (like they felt last time) since it is up to them to
>>> decide how these articles are going to be integrated.
>>>
>>> The thought was that people in Iran cannot donate easily to WMF,
>>> but by helping to get these articles right and moving them into
>>> the main namespace we have a double effect: the work done was not
>>> useless, the articles get integrated into fa.wikipedia and the
>>> WMF will get the available money in terms of a donation.
>>>
>>> We are talking about 147 articles - that is approx. 1470 EUR for
>>> the foundation (or 147 EUR more depending on the outgoing links -
>>> or better wikilinks that lead to other articles).
>>>
>>> Eventually in future there could be other contents creation
>>> projects from our first donor - what I would like to do at this
>>> stage is really try to get into a good co-operation with people
>>> from fa.wikipedia who at this very moment probably don't see me
>>> in the best light. Well this can change. I hope they will
>>> understand that we are for involving them to avoid other ways of
>>> doing things and to get the money instead of getting them to
>>> translators to the WMF.
>>>
>>> I wrote first of all Hessam to know his opinion about dealing
>>> with it this way: he would communicate the "adapt and move"
>>> project to the fa.wikipedia community and then we would see how
>>> things go.
>>>
>>> So... this is the first time me wearing two hats ... Wikimedia
>>> Foundation and Open Progress. I know there will be other
>>> circumstances where I will need to do this and it is not always
>>> easy.
>>>
>>> I hope this way of dealing with this meet your approval.
>>>
>>> Hessam: please do not publish for now. I would like to wait two
>>> days if there is any opposition or other proposals by anybody who
>>> is copied in this mail. Thank you for helping :-) that's really
>>> great.
>>>
>>> For now have a nice evening!
>>>
>>> Going to get the kids to bed ...
>>>
>>> Best wishes from Italy,
>>>
>>> Sabine
>>>
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I am sorry if I appear a bit obtuse, but I am not sure I fully
>> understand what the proposal is. Can you clarify ?
>>
>> From what I understand
>> 1) 147 articles were translated in farsi, from english wikipedia,
>> by two professional translators, who were paid by Open Progress
>> 2) the translated articles were not put in the main space, but set
>> up in a separate namespace.
>> (this was about a year ago. I remember there were some
>> disagreements from the fa community, who did not want to accept
>> the articles)
>>
>> 3) a donor wants to give 1470 EUR (more or less) to WMF, to make
>> sure the articles would be completed (with links) and moved to the
>> main space
>>
>> What I do not understand is
>> A) do you expect the WMF to pay 10 euros to the translators to
>> move and complete the articles ?
>> B) do you expect the WMF to pay some editors to move and complete
>> the articles ?
>> C) do you expect the move to happen all by itself, and WMF simply
>> keep the donation ?
>> D) something else ?
>>
>> In short, will someone be paid ?
>> By who ?
>> Who will coordinatate the move and completion ?
>> Who will decide the job is well done ?
>> Should the links be "controlled" by the donor ?
>> Who is paying ? Open Progress or WMF ? What is Open Progress role
>> here ?
>>
>> Anthere
> Thanks Florence. I was hesitant to jump in, thinking I am simply
> late to the conversation. But those are the questions I have too :-)