On 28 Nov 2008, at 00:27, Ray Saintonge wrote:
Michael Everson wrote:
On 27 Nov 2008, at 12:05, David Gerard wrote:
2008/11/27 Michael Everson
<everson(a)evertype.com>om>:
We haven't proposed that. We proposed
"Ireland (state)".
That has a slight smell of neologism - is the term used anywhere
outside Wikipedia?
It is no different from "Georgia (country)"
That's because the nationals of a few small countries perceive a
"state" to be a political subdivision.
I don't understand. "Georgia (country)" and "Georgia (state)"
would
both = Sakartvelo and both contrast with "Georgia (U.S. State)". And
the U.S. States are sovereign in a sense (California is more sovereign
than County Mayo in Ireland is), though they also are part of a
federal structure which is the top-level subdivision in terms of UN
recognition.
At least "Republic of Ireland" is something
it's called in an
official document on the state's formation.
Incorrect. The Constitution of Ireland (1937) specifies that
"Ireland" is the name of the state. The Republic of Ireland Act
(1948) specifies that "Republic of Ireland" is a "description" of
the state.
Does the 1937 Constitution actually use the word "state"?
Yes. Clause 2 is "the State" and section 4 states "The name of the
State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland."
Would [[Ireland (Republic)]] be sufficient to
emphasize that the
term "republic" is merely descriptive.
I don't believe it would be preferable. to changee [[Republic of
Ireland]] to [[Ireland (republic)]] or to [[Ireland (Republic)]] -- I
think you'd get push-back on that. I could ask, but just at the moment
that might be poking the hornet's nest.
Once again,
the best compromise proposal:
Ireland --> disambiguation page
Ireland (island) --> about the island, comparable to the "Great
Britain" article
Ireland (state) --> about the state.
While I have no difficulty with [[Ireland (state)]]. I think that
reducing [[Ireland]] to a disambiguation page diminishes the term.
"Diminish"? I don't see how. The word "Ireland" is well and truly
ambiguous. It *could* point to the modern state, but that pisses a lot
of Northern Ireland editors off. Hence the compromise.
There is nothing in what your proposal that would
adequately deal
with pre-1922 Ireland.
You mean, pre-1922 Ireland as a political unit? [[Irish_Free_State]]
deals with Ireland 1922-1937; The proposed [[Ireland (state)]] deals
with the modern country. We've got [[Irish_states_since_1171]]. I
don't see the problem. It's a complex situation. With the article name
changes as proposed I think we'd have a good shot at sorting out the
articles though.
Michael Everson *
http://www.evertype.com