Same old, same old... The discussion yet again degrades to "all your
statements are false and must be ignored". I suppose your stand point is so
weak that you have to attack me on first opportunity. Your tone is insulting
and incivil. Here I am telling you that "I value your opinions on the matter
greatly" and in return you name-call my views "rubbish". I am willing to
compromise but you aren't at all as you aren't even 'agreeing to disagree'
-
basic consensus in
practice<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Consensus#Consensus_in_p…ce>.
Let's not talk about the past two years, shall we. You make it sound as if
you never encountered me whatsoever for the two years.
My understanding of "consensus" is a community wide decision based on
collaboration of different users who may even have opposing views which
cannot be achieved via vote stacking of identically minded people. My
understanding of "guidelines" is that they have community-wide support
behind it before they are put into practice. My understanding of guidelines
is that they are not enforced as there are plenty of conflicting guidelines.
[[WP:EPISODE]] neither has community consensus behind it nor is it being
applied consistently.
All you, TTN and others want to do is delete the work of others. They/You
draft guidelines strictly for this purpose, to delete and not to expand.
Such guidelines are more of a "how to" to delete. There are plenty examples
of like-minded people consistently voting in groups in a similar manner to
delete. TTN's contribution is dedicated to mass deletion and he is operating
like a bot. He isn't willing to compromise, he isn't even willing to
participate in the general discussion. So it isn't surprising for such
people to even give the basic courtesy of respecting my views.
Fine, I'll let the matter escalate. No one can say that I have not tried
discussing this. While I do not necessarily expect people to agree with me,
I do require that my views be respected at a minimum for me to participate
in a discussion. This matter will explode sooner or later. This arbcom case
was merely the tip of the iceberg. I suppose people are right. Mailing lists
are a complete waste of time. I am done here on this matter.
All I want to do is passionately write an encyclopedia. For that crime I
must be put through all sorts of nonsense. I know there is a phrase "no good
deed goes unpunished" but this is ridiculous.
- White Cat
On Jan 1, 2008 4:34 AM, Ned Scott <ned(a)nedscott.com> wrote:
You've just made a huge load of strawman arguments
and misleading
statements that border on outright lies of what actually has happened.
I recall you arguing passionately to save a recap episode that would
never have any information to say about it. I remember you insisting
that we have separate articles for -the same character- of that same
show. I remember those of us on the talk page continually disproving
your highly illogical and flawed viewpoint regarding notability,
organization, and the amount of reasonable plot summary. You haven't
changed in almost two years since then. If someone ever cited a
guideline, you would attack that guideline. If we established a
consensus, you would ignore the arguments and instead try to mislead
others into joining the debate with strawman arguments.
How can you expect anyone, on either side of this debate, to have any
respect for your views when you disrespect us with this rubbish?
--Ned Scott
On Dec 31, 2007, at 5:41 AM, White Cat wrote:
We do have some sort of b'cracy going on.
First you mass merge
articles to a
few lists after heavy trimming. Wait a month or two to calm the fan
reaction. Merge these lists to a single list after heavy trimming.
Wait a
month or two to calm the fan reaction. Blank the list and convert it
to a
redirect to the main article.
I really do not understand this tendency to "mass merge" articles
out of
notability concerns. What are you doing? Do they become notable when
merged
to a long and unintelligible list? This is helping wikipedia become
a better
encyclopedia? Not everyone has a private broadband line going into
their
computer you know. You might, but the vast majority of the world
doesn't.
GPRS connections for example are no faster than 56k
Merges of lots of short articles with no hope of growing is
understandable.
Merges of long articles is not. One key problem when merging
multiple LONG
articles is that the merged page gets ridiculously long. Articles are
shortened for this purpose and you get very little content. Then
people
complain that these list of character articles are unencyclopedic
because
there is little actual information on them. In other words due to a
lack of
information that were removed during the merge, list of character
articles
get blanked. We break articles apart when they get too long. We do
not do
the opposite.
Just because something contains little out-of-universe info, why
does that
mean a non-discussion auto deletion? Don't get me wrong, I do
understand why
we *want* out-of-universe info. I want out-of-universe info too. It
keeps
the article interesting if nothing else. What I do not understand is
why we
*require* out of universe info for articles to exist. Articles are
*required
* to be written with the use of [[WP:V|verifiable]] and [[WP:RS|
reliable]]
sources. Someone should explain me why is out-of-universe info
required
without wikilawyering me policies, guidelines or essays.
As Jimbo stated that seeking of a "universal notability" is a mistake.
Harvard will not publish an article or a book on Pokemon species,
Simpsons
characters, Doctor Who vilans, Star Trek episodes anytime soon. This
does
not mean they should be bulk removed. We have articles on Simpons
which is
the shining example of how fiction related articles can be improved.
Simpsons have had about 400 TV episodes. If they all become FAs that
will be
about 1/3rd or 1/4th of our current number of Featured articles.
This is the
strength of Wikipedia and weakness of snubs like Britannica. If you
want
Wikipedia to be a Britannica, you could just buy Britannica...
*Case study: *Unown
For the following article I see plenty of sources. Granted it isn't
featured
quality but it certainly isn't a stub. Note that some referances are
not
shown because someone forgot to add {{reflist}}
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Unown&oldid=148901394
It was shortened to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unown#Unown
Which version is more encyclopedic? More readable? Overall more
useful?
Better sourced? Did the shortened version increase article quality?
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