DaB, On Sun, Mar 4, 2012 at 4:04 PM, Marcin Cieslak <saper(a)saper.info> wrote: Let me know if you need Solaris or other help. Thanks, Gerald

On Sun, Mar 4, 2012 at 22:05, Tim Landscheidt <tim(a)tim-landscheidt.de> wrote: I assume this is one of the reasons to use puppet? Puppet manifests can have comments and the roots could establish a standardized way of writing (inline) why a package is needed. (e.g., a) assumed to be widely used like sed, grep or b) needed by the roots or a process that doesn't belong to a particular user or MMP or c) needed by users/MMP foo, baz, bar or some combination of those.) Of course most people (whether roots or users or anyone else) won't do a very thorough job of enumerating dependencies when installing, updating, hacking software unless they first do an installation of that version on a brand new Debian install with a limited set of installed packages. i.e. most people won't notice that a package is needed or not already picked up some other way until they see something is broken because it's missing. I'm not sure if I like ~/.requirements (and maybe it could be something like ~/.package-depends instead?) in place of puppet but at least it could be used as a failsafe if a root wanted to check after installing a new box or before removing a package. This all got me thinking: can SGE be told that a job needs a certain package, choose a box that has it already installed, and keep relevant stats so that roots know if a package should be installed somewhere else as well? -Jeremy

Hello, At Monday 05 March 2012 14:59:20 DaB. wrote: Let me descript the situation a bit: For solaris we do not use the solatris- package-manager to install packages, but compile and package the stuff on our own. For Debian we plan to use the package-manager of Debian as far as possible. In puppet (our server-managment-programm) I have now a HUGE list of liberies and software to install for the solaris-server – but the names of the packages does not match with the debian-package-names of course. I would need weeks to figure out what belongs to what – I do not have to time (and to admit: also not the motivation) to do this. So my plan is the following: I will install some basic stuff (like perl, python, gcc, libcurl – you know) and everything that people put in the list [1] – that's it. Then when I finish with the boxes, I will allow you all to login. You can test then your stuff and if do not work because something is missing, you can request to install that. There will be no hurry because willow (with a working solaris) is still there. Over the time, more and more tools will move to the Debian-boxes and more and more debian-packages will be installed (what makes the moving of other tools even easier). At the end, only the following stuff will remain at willow: *tools of people who are <s>too lazy</s>too busy to move their stuff *tools which can not run on Debian for some reasons *tools of users who left the TS That is a nice plan, but it would not work, because most users are not capable to tell what liberies they need. And it is BTW not a problem to have a libery installed that is not used (because we have enough free space for that). Sincerely, DaB. [1] https://wiki.toolserver.org/view/User:Dab/Debian-Packages -- Userpage: [[:w:de:User:DaB.]] — PGP: 2B255885

Hello, At Tuesday 06 March 2012 16:42:01 DaB. wrote: at the moment the puppet-stuff is not public, because it contains some passwords, but I published the software-files at [1] (only the parts for solaris is interesting here). Please only put packages at [2] that you realy need or where you are realy sure that other people will need it. yes. Sincerley, DaB. [1] http://toolserver.org/~dab/puppet/ [2] https://wiki.toolserver.org/view/User:Dab/Debian-Packages -- Userpage: [[:w:de:User:DaB.]] — PGP: 2B255885

On 05/03/12 23:36, Tim Landscheidt wrote: That assumes they know what they are doing, instead of blindly copy&pasting recipes. I know that's not true for many toolserver users, where we have very valued developers. But I'm sure there is also a bunch of people which copied pywikipediabot following some instructions, and are only experts on its command line. Don't misinterpret me, I'm not meaning that they shouldn't have an account in the TS, or that they are second-class users. It's good to have them on board, each one has its own know-how, very much as not every php coder is a perl guru. But not everyone has the experience to identify the dependencies of what they're doing. And then, even for those writing their own scripts, having to copy the requisites to a separate file and keeping them up-to-date is a burdensome task. I prefer the autodetection way as far as it's possible (which in most cases looks simple).