It struck me as somewhat odd, pleasant, sweet post which elicited an unpleasant
reaction.
I'd suggest probably to anyone reading it.. the reaction is what might put them off
Wikipedia. Because after all, a friendly posting on a noticeboard getting flamed is the
sort of environment we *know* is offputting to people.
Tom
On 18 July 2013 16:10, Katherine Casey <fluffernutter.wiki(a)gmail.com> wrote:
But I did all those things, Powers. I said that I
knew it was supposed to be humourous and that LoS might not personally mind it, and I said
that my concern was for other people reading it. And the responses I've gotten, both
directed at me and among people not talking to me, were pretty horrible. All of them
alleged that I had no right to speak at all, and certainly not a right to ruin the fun
other editors were having with my silly old "women are equal" crap.
I see a large part - maybe the bigger part - of the problem here as the fact that men
perceive my intervention as "humorless scolding" that's just out to ruin
their good, clean fun (fun that was totally humorous and in no way in need of correction,
of course), and that they feel the appropriate response to that is to jeer, laugh, and
insult me freely, the better to make sure no woman dares speak up next time.
As a thought experiment, Powers, consider: would you ever tell a male editor that their
behavior came off as "scolding"? I suspect the answer is no; that's a term
almost exclusively reserved for use against women.
-Fluff
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 8:41 AM, Powers <LtPowers_Wiki(a)rochester.rr.com> wrote:
I think your approach was well-intentioned but
flawed, much like Drmies’ initial post.
Unfortunately, your admonition came off like the stereotypical “that’s so sexist to
comment on a woman’s body” approach, which triggered defenses that focused on the fact
that it was just a joke, Drmies and LoS are friends, why don’t you people have a sense of
humor?
If, instead, you’d acknowledged the humor (rather than just an attempt at humor),
acknowledged that LoS herself likely would not find it offensive, nor that Drmies intended
it as such… and then explained that your concern was for other editors who might come
across the comment and, not knowing the relationships involved, tick Wikipedia down yet
another mental notch in “welcomingness”.
Instead you came across as humorless and scolding, which rarely garners productive
responses.
Powers &8^]
-----Original Message-----
From: Katherine Casey [mailto:fluffernutter.wiki@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday 17 July 2013 14:24
To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects
Subject: [Gendergap] Casual sexism on en.wp
Another day, another example of casual sexism exhibited by en.wikipedia editors who mean
absolutely no harm, but simply don't understand how they could cause harm while
meaning none. I seem to have caused significant alarm and offense to a number of male
editors be publicly pointing out that I found the comment inappropriate.
Was there a better way to handle this? I can't help feeling that saying nothing or
hatting the section would have been supporting the notion that it's either not a
problem or not remarkable for male editors to make comments encouraging others to comment
on female editors' bodies.
-Fluff
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