likely paint a picture of a black man.
A tangent- but this is not strictly true! See:
On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 8:11 PM, Marie Earley <eiryel(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
Since you've asked Derric...
When you posted your message, "Can we please steer it back on topic and
remember why we are all here?"
- I was ready to steam in as I misinterpreted it.
I thought that - as a response to Carol's comment that women get hassled
here and quit the list - you were saying, "We're not supposed to be talking
about women getting hassled, we're supposed to be talking about why women
leave." (I was going to say, "but they left precisely BECAUSE they were
being hassled".)
Fortunately I read your next message in time not to steam in.
Perhaps instead of:
"Nemo and Carol both, I really don't
like the direction that this
discussion is going. Can we please steer it back on
topic and remember why
we are all here?"
...something along the lines of,
"I'm sure there are lots of examples
people could give of poor behaviour
on this list. Since the purpose of this list is
"...discussing solutions
and exploring opportunities that may serve as a starting point to improve
gender equity, increase the participation of women and trans women, and
reduce the impact of the gender gap within Wikipedia, Wikimedia Commons,
and the 'free knowledge movement'." then perhaps we should discuss measures
that would tackle such poor behaviour."
Also if you ask a white artist to paint a picture of a man they will most
likely paint a picture of a white man. If you ask a black artist to paint a
picture of a man they will most likely paint a picture of a black man.
Neither are being racist. It's worth remembering that men - no matter how
progressive or forward thinking - experience the world as men and women
experience the world as women.
There's a well known workplace experiment where a group of men are put in
one room and given a task and a group of women are put in another room and
given the same task. The women invariably put everything on the coffee
table in front of them, lean forward, and work collaboratively. Meanwhile
in the men are choosing someone who will lead them, Mr Alpha Male then goes
and stands by the white board taking ideas from the room. Neither room is
being sexist, it is just how the respective genders like to work.
I also can't help but notice that solutions being put forward seem to be
of the latter, male orientated 'from-the-top-down' variety.
Marie
From: datzrott(a)alizeepathology.com
To: gendergap(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2014 13:05:00 -0400
Subject: Re: [Gendergap] men on lists
Would anybody object to me hijacking this thread to use as a sort of
meta thread
for what just happened? I have further questions and things to
explain and get feedback on. I can start another thread if wanted.
This whole situation sort of reminds me of when I tried suggesting on
Wikitech-l
that people make use of NVC and people were really offended.
Like there my intention was never to come off as condescending, but
apparently I am just really awful at not coming off that way via email. I'd
like to work on that and also find out what sort of things men on this list
can do to make the environment better are and in specific myself. I think a
polite discussion of what just happened would help advance all of those
goals.
Thank you,
Derric Atzrott
_______________________________________________
Gendergap mailing list
Gendergap(a)lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
_______________________________________________
Gendergap mailing list
Gendergap(a)lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap