🌹for your good work !!
Anna Jonsson
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 08:29:40 -0700
From: sarah.stierch(a)gmail.com
To: gendergap(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Topless image retention on Commons and use on enwp
Sorry if this gets a little off topic from the actual focus of the subjects. I just need
to personally vent and this gives me a chance (thanks Katherine). I assume I can't be
the only one who feels this way, and it seems you might also.
I totally understand the "it depresses me" situation. I got involved in some of
the discussions about the women's foo categories only to get bombarded with comments
when I brought up "I don't know if anyone here is even a woman involved, from
what I know, I think I might be the only woman here," and then to be snapped at
"How do you know I'm not a woman?" by someone with a male user name
(Jeremy). I felt like a total fail, and basically left the conversation only to get
comments on my talk page. I have officially declared I'm "burnt out" on any
and all gender conversations, specifically triggered by the recent category situation.
95% if not more of the people discussing all of these things are, from what I believe,
identifying on Wikipedia as the masculine. It's really troubling for me, and right now
I'm at the point where I just can't fight it right now. I'm feeling depressed
about it, hopeless, and all of the other fun things that go with burn out. (Funny, I
didn't suffer burn out this severe when I was a fellow, but I did have two minor bouts
of burn out during that year, this is by far the worst)
I basically had to stop doing the painful nomination and arguing about nudity and
women's images on Commons. Part of this was because it was so demoralizing and
depressing, and the other was the repeated "You'll never be an admin on Commons
if you keep doing this," and I always wanted to be an admin on Commons. The fact that
I let this argument - being made by male Commonists - trigger me to not participate in the
conversations is an entirely different psychological issue in itself! Oy vey.
Gah. :(
-Sarah
On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 8:08 AM, Katherine Casey <fluffernutter.wiki(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Came across this kerfuffle today. I'd love to see what more gendergap-focused people
think about the following progression of events (note: the image is NSFW, but each of the
links I'm providing are SFW if you don't click through to the image/article):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Exhibitionism#Image_at_top_of_page <---discussion
about whether to use an identifiable woman's topless photo on the top of an enwp
article. The person raising the discussion notes that "I find it hard to believe that
this woman wants her picture on WP, and I don't think we have a right to show her
because of a momentary indiscretion in a public place."
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Mardi_Gras…
<---Same image is nominated for deletion on Commons, with similar rationale
The image is kept.Discussion on enwp spins off from the same issue:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:BLPN#Photos_of_private_people_doing_…
, splitting between one faction saying "It's legal, so it's fine" and
another saying "It's a matter of ethics, not legality."
Speaking personally, my takeaway from reading through this situation has gone through
"mortification in empathy for the image subject, who was almost certainly drunk and
unable to consent", "frustration with Commons's dismissive approach to the
questioning of identfiable sexual images", and finally "realization that in all
three discussions, I see no users who I know to be female. Not one. It seems quite likely
that the issue of whether this woman's right to be protected by BLP extends to images
of her breasts...is being discussed 100% by men."
I don't quite know what my point is here, other than to note that to me, this feels
very, very representative of the way women and women's issues are treated on WP and on
Commons, even when we're supposed to be hyper-aware of the gendergap and its effects,
and it depresses me.
-Fluffernutter
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--
--
Sarah Stierch
Museumist, open culture advocate, and
Wikimedianwww.sarahstierch.com
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