That's an argument for 'they might not
find the feature as useful'. Will
they be directly inconvenienced by the feature? Not that I can see. But
since we're in agreement that, well, we're not in agreement, it's probably
worth mooting this conversation until there comes a time when we have more
evidence on how things work in practise, or other people want to take up
the baton.
On 27 March 2013 20:23, Vibha Bamba <vbamba(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
Right. So I agree we need solutions that will
work across a spectrum of
engagement levels.
But turning categories off also doesn't work for new users, *their
volume and velocity of notifications* is much smaller than the power
user.
On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 1:19 PM, Oliver Keyes <okeyes(a)wikimedia.org>wrote;wrote:
> I am certainly talking about the power user; my point is that we *do*have use cases
here :). I strongly agree that new users are unlikely to
> create a volume of edits or articles in a single go, but given that our job
> with EE is to turn them *into* power users, and being able to create
> mechanisms to do this requires some kind of community acceptance, it seems
> illogical to make product decisions based on the short-term. I'm happy to
> wait until we have *more* evidence, and other people are convinced
> this might be worth looking into, but "I think you may be talking about the
> power user here" is never a valid argument for a feature that hits
> non-newcomers.
>
>
> On 27 March 2013 20:02, Vibha Bamba <vbamba(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
>> Oliver, I think you may be talking about the power user here:
>> New users are unlikely to create a volume of edits or articles in a
>> single go.
>>
>> Certain categories *cannot *be switched off:
>> -Systme Messages
>> -Talk Page messages
>>
>> You bring up a very valid case, but I doubt that the solution is
>> turning entire categories off from the flyout.
>> If it is spam for power users, they can turn things off in
>> Preferences.
>>
>> Facebook provides a very sophisticated level of control in the
>> flyouts by letting you mute :
>>
>> -Notification from User X (*Not* all talk messages)
>> -Notifications about Event X (*Not* all events)
>> -Notifications from X wall Post (Not all your wall posts, just this
>> specific one)
>> -Notifications from the status you posted (Not your entire wall)
>> -Notifications for a language from a service (Not even the entire app
>> in all cases)
>>
>> This is the level of control we may need for some categories, but it
>> needs more thinking,
>> I dont think we are there yet.
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Oliver Keyes
<okeyes(a)wikimedia.org>wrote;wrote:
>>
>>> As someone who has spent time directly observing user behaviour for
>>> many years - we have lots and lots of evidence. For example; are you aware
>>> that users semi-automatically and/or rapidly create articles? Usually
>>> translated from other projects. I sincerely doubt that they will want a
>>> notification every time.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 27 March 2013 19:32, Vibha Bamba <vbamba(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> To clarify:
>>>>
>>>> 1) The safest thing that allows to build incrementally for now is
>>>> 'Ive read this > Remove it' which is a really a simple
*'Go Away'*
>>>> 2 ) In addition to this we could support a* 'Clear All Read'*
from
>>>> the flyout so a user doesn't have to dismiss one at a time.
>>>>
>>>> This still leaves us with the problem of cross linking notification
>>>> which may be large in volume > we could make that an *'Opt
In'*
>>>>
>>>> The reason I think turning off categories in the flyout is
>>>> problematic is:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Dismissing entire categories needs more fine tuning. Users
>>>> will want to unfollow specific things > Articles > Discussions
etc.
>>>> 2. Switching off categories also prevents us from incremental
>>>> fine tune controls in the short term.
>>>> 3. Other than cross links, so far we dont have enough evidence
>>>> that users will want to switch entire categories off. We need more
time and
>>>> back end support to figure that out.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Vibha Bamba <vbamba(a)wikimedia.org
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I propose:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) The safest thing that allows to build incrementally for now is
>>>>> 'Ive read this > Remove it'
>>>>> 2 ) In addition to this we could support a clear all new from the
>>>>> flyout so a user doesn't have to dismiss one at a time.
>>>>>
>>>>> This still leaves us with the problem of cross linking
>>>>> notification which may be large in volume > we could make that an
'opt in'
>>>>>
>>>>> Dismissing entire categories needs more fine tuning.
>>>>> Other than cross links, so far we dont have enough evidence that
>>>>> users will want to switch entire categories off.
>>>>> Users will want to unfollow specific things > Articles >
>>>>> Discussions etc.
>>>>> We need more time and back end support to figure that out.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 12:17 PM, Isarra Yos
<zhorishna(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> But having the option there at all, if its to be removed later
>>>>>> for simplicity, could even cause problems - how quickly would
users figure
>>>>>> out that they dont want a kind of message? On the first one, it
probably
>>>>>> wont seem worth dismissing all of the type - might be interesting
to get
>>>>>> more. But once they get twenty in the next day, then it would
probably sink
>>>>>> in that okay, this is really annoying. But where did the option
go? Wasnt
>>>>>> there an option?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If anything it might lead them away from their preferences
>>>>>> because their preferences are not where they saw the option
initially.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 27/03/2013 13:11, Matthew Flaschen wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 03/27/2013 03:09 PM, Isarra Yos wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Perhaps Im misunderstanding something, but if someone is
trying
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> dismiss several, they wont want a dialog showing up every
time,
>>>>>>>> but at
>>>>>>>> the same time even if they dont want to disable all of
the type
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> first time that doesnt mean they wont want to do that
later.
>>>>>>>> The option,
>>>>>>>> if its going to be there, needs to be there somewhat
>>>>>>>> consistently.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can still disable the notification category in
>>>>>>> Special:Preferences .
>>>>>>> It may be worthwhile to keep the main Echo interface (not
>>>>>>> preferences)
>>>>>>> simpler if they choose not to disable the category the first
>>>>>>> time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Matt Flaschen
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
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>>>>>>> EE(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> -— Isarra
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Oliver Keyes
>>> Community Liaison, Product Development
>>> Wikimedia Foundation
>>>
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>>>
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>>
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>
>
> --
> Oliver Keyes
> Community Liaison, Product Development
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
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