Ryan, can you request you to comment on tech
feasibility analysis for 2
things:
-A simple 'Go away/Remove this notification'
-And a 'Clear All' for visible notifications in the flyout?
On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 1:25 PM, Oliver Keyes <okeyes(a)wikimedia.org>wrote;wrote:
That's an argument for 'they might not
find the feature as useful'.
Will they be directly inconvenienced by the feature? Not that I can see.
But since we're in agreement that, well, we're not in agreement, it's
probably worth mooting this conversation until there comes a time when we
have more evidence on how things work in practise, or other people want to
take up the baton.
On 27 March 2013 20:23, Vibha Bamba <vbamba(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
> Right. So I agree we need solutions that will work across a spectrum
> of engagement levels.
> But turning categories off also doesn't work for new users, *their
> volume and velocity of notifications* is much smaller than the power
> user.
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 1:19 PM, Oliver Keyes <okeyes(a)wikimedia.org>wrote;wrote:
>
>> I am certainly talking about the power user; my point is that we *do*have use
cases here :). I strongly agree that new users are unlikely to
>> create a volume of edits or articles in a single go, but given that our job
>> with EE is to turn them *into* power users, and being able to create
>> mechanisms to do this requires some kind of community acceptance, it seems
>> illogical to make product decisions based on the short-term. I'm happy to
>> wait until we have *more* evidence, and other people are convinced
>> this might be worth looking into, but "I think you may be talking about the
>> power user here" is never a valid argument for a feature that hits
>> non-newcomers.
>>
>>
>> On 27 March 2013 20:02, Vibha Bamba <vbamba(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Oliver, I think you may be talking about the power user here:
>>> New users are unlikely to create a volume of edits or articles in a
>>> single go.
>>>
>>> Certain categories *cannot *be switched off:
>>> -Systme Messages
>>> -Talk Page messages
>>>
>>> You bring up a very valid case, but I doubt that the solution is
>>> turning entire categories off from the flyout.
>>> If it is spam for power users, they can turn things off in
>>> Preferences.
>>>
>>> Facebook provides a very sophisticated level of control in the
>>> flyouts by letting you mute :
>>>
>>> -Notification from User X (*Not* all talk messages)
>>> -Notifications about Event X (*Not* all events)
>>> -Notifications from X wall Post (Not all your wall posts, just this
>>> specific one)
>>> -Notifications from the status you posted (Not your entire wall)
>>> -Notifications for a language from a service (Not even the entire
>>> app in all cases)
>>>
>>> This is the level of control we may need for some categories, but it
>>> needs more thinking,
>>> I dont think we are there yet.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Oliver Keyes <okeyes(a)wikimedia.org
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> As someone who has spent time directly observing user behaviour for
>>>> many years - we have lots and lots of evidence. For example; are you
aware
>>>> that users semi-automatically and/or rapidly create articles? Usually
>>>> translated from other projects. I sincerely doubt that they will want a
>>>> notification every time.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 27 March 2013 19:32, Vibha Bamba <vbamba(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> To clarify:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) The safest thing that allows to build incrementally for now is
>>>>> 'Ive read this > Remove it' which is a really a simple
*'Go Away'
>>>>> *
>>>>> 2 ) In addition to this we could support a* 'Clear All
Read'*from the flyout so a user doesn't have to dismiss one at a time.
>>>>>
>>>>> This still leaves us with the problem of cross linking
>>>>> notification which may be large in volume > we could make that an
>>>>> *'Opt In'*
>>>>>
>>>>> The reason I think turning off categories in the flyout is
>>>>> problematic is:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Dismissing entire categories needs more fine tuning. Users
>>>>> will want to unfollow specific things > Articles >
Discussions etc.
>>>>> 2. Switching off categories also prevents us from incremental
>>>>> fine tune controls in the short term.
>>>>> 3. Other than cross links, so far we dont have enough evidence
>>>>> that users will want to switch entire categories off. We need more
time and
>>>>> back end support to figure that out.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Vibha Bamba <
>>>>> vbamba(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I propose:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) The safest thing that allows to build incrementally for now
is
>>>>>> 'Ive read this > Remove it'
>>>>>> 2 ) In addition to this we could support a clear all new from
the
>>>>>> flyout so a user doesn't have to dismiss one at a time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This still leaves us with the problem of cross linking
>>>>>> notification which may be large in volume > we could make that
an 'opt in'
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dismissing entire categories needs more fine tuning.
>>>>>> Other than cross links, so far we dont have enough evidence that
>>>>>> users will want to switch entire categories off.
>>>>>> Users will want to unfollow specific things > Articles >
>>>>>> Discussions etc.
>>>>>> We need more time and back end support to figure that out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 12:17 PM, Isarra Yos
<zhorishna(a)gmail.com
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But having the option there at all, if its to be removed
later
>>>>>>> for simplicity, could even cause problems - how quickly would
users figure
>>>>>>> out that they dont want a kind of message? On the first one,
it probably
>>>>>>> wont seem worth dismissing all of the type - might be
interesting to get
>>>>>>> more. But once they get twenty in the next day, then it would
probably sink
>>>>>>> in that okay, this is really annoying. But where did the
option go? Wasnt
>>>>>>> there an option?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If anything it might lead them away from their preferences
>>>>>>> because their preferences are not where they saw the option
initially.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 27/03/2013 13:11, Matthew Flaschen wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 03/27/2013 03:09 PM, Isarra Yos wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Perhaps Im misunderstanding something, but if someone
is
>>>>>>>>> trying to
>>>>>>>>> dismiss several, they wont want a dialog showing up
every
>>>>>>>>> time, but at
>>>>>>>>> the same time even if they dont want to disable all
of the
>>>>>>>>> type the
>>>>>>>>> first time that doesnt mean they wont want to do that
later.
>>>>>>>>> The option,
>>>>>>>>> if its going to be there, needs to be there somewhat
>>>>>>>>> consistently.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can still disable the notification category in
>>>>>>>> Special:Preferences .
>>>>>>>> It may be worthwhile to keep the main Echo interface
(not
>>>>>>>> preferences)
>>>>>>>> simpler if they choose not to disable the category the
first
>>>>>>>> time.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Matt Flaschen
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> -— Isarra
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Oliver Keyes
>>>> Community Liaison, Product Development
>>>> Wikimedia Foundation
>>>>
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>> --
>> Oliver Keyes
>> Community Liaison, Product Development
>> Wikimedia Foundation
>>
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Community Liaison, Product Development
Wikimedia Foundation
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