They are interactive mockups with motion and its
too hard to share them
without seeing them live.
I believe you will join the Monday meeting?
On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 4:33 PM, Oliver Keyes <okeyes(a)wikimedia.org>wrote;wrote:
Speaking as one of the several remote employees
on the E2 team, I would
suggest taking that sharing list in reverse order :).
On 29 March 2013 23:31, Vibha Bamba <vbamba(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
> I will also share these in the team meeting and then we can discuss
> the conclusion and I will post a PDF on Mediawiki.
>
> Thanks
> Vibha
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 4:31 PM, Vibha Bamba <vbamba(a)wikimedia.org>wrote;wrote:
>
>> I have two prototypes to share that will help solve this problem that
>> I can share on monday at my desk.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 2:59 PM, Benny Situ <bsitu(a)wikimedia.org>wrote;wrote:
>>
>>> I did not go through every thread in this conversation, what problem
>>> is 'clear/go away' trying to solve? Is it because the notification
topic
>>> is not interesting to the user or is it because it disturbs the user view
>>> in the flyout? 'clearing' existing ones doesn't prevent new ones
from
>>> coming in. Or is it just because we want to provide more UI control to end
>>> users?
>>>
>>> I receive emails from amazon regularly and I would view them
>>> occasionally to see what's on sale , I would never check/delete them
>>> because I know that new emails will push them out of the first page. If I
>>> am getting sick of receiving such email I would just unsubscribe. I am not
>>> sure about implementing such function, I think it totally depends on
>>> personal preference ( in such case, majority rules, :) ).
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 1:33 PM, Luke Welling WMF <
>>> lwelling(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I generally like the feature in its current form.
>>>>
>>>> It's not exactly how I'd have specified it. I think consistency
in
>>>> UX is vital so if it were just up to me, I would not have different
>>>> handling for talk and system notifications. But that's a relatively
minor
>>>> issue.
>>>>
>>>> The big question I'd ask now is "Is there a realistic chance
that
>>>> we'll add fine grained control in V1.1?"
>>>>
>>>> If there is, then type based disabling is dangerous. It limits what
>>>> we can turn on later. For example, if somebody has turned off all page
link
>>>> notifications because they were getting dozens for a single
uninteresting
>>>> page they created, and we later add per page disabling of that type, we
>>>> can't reasonably turn it back on for that user. Undoing their manual
>>>> preference settings would be obnoxious. We've lost them from that
feature
>>>> forever even if we improve it.
>>>>
>>>> Luke
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 4:27 PM, Vibha Bamba
<vbamba(a)wikimedia.org>wrote;wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ryan, can you request you to comment on tech feasibility analysis
>>>>> for 2 things:
>>>>>
>>>>> -A simple 'Go away/Remove this notification'
>>>>> -And a 'Clear All' for visible notifications in the flyout?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 1:25 PM, Oliver Keyes <
>>>>> okeyes(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> That's an argument for 'they might not find the feature
as
>>>>>> useful'. Will they be directly inconvenienced by the feature?
Not that I
>>>>>> can see. But since we're in agreement that, well, we're
not in agreement,
>>>>>> it's probably worth mooting this conversation until there
comes a time when
>>>>>> we have more evidence on how things work in practise, or other
people want
>>>>>> to take up the baton.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 27 March 2013 20:23, Vibha Bamba <vbamba(a)wikimedia.org>
wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Right. So I agree we need solutions that will work across a
>>>>>>> spectrum of engagement levels.
>>>>>>> But turning categories off also doesn't work for new
users, *their
>>>>>>> volume and velocity of notifications* is much smaller than
the
>>>>>>> power user.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 1:19 PM, Oliver Keyes <
>>>>>>> okeyes(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am certainly talking about the power user; my point is
that
>>>>>>>> we *do* have use cases here :). I strongly agree that
new
>>>>>>>> users are unlikely to create a volume of edits or
articles in a single go,
>>>>>>>> but given that our job with EE is to turn them *into*
power
>>>>>>>> users, and being able to create mechanisms to do this
requires some kind of
>>>>>>>> community acceptance, it seems illogical to make product
decisions based on
>>>>>>>> the short-term. I'm happy to wait until we have
*more*evidence, and other people are convinced this might be worth looking into,
>>>>>>>> but "I think you may be talking about the power user
here" is never a valid
>>>>>>>> argument for a feature that hits non-newcomers.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 27 March 2013 20:02, Vibha Bamba
<vbamba(a)wikimedia.org>wrote;wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Oliver, I think you may be talking about the power
user here:
>>>>>>>>> New users are unlikely to create a volume of edits or
articles
>>>>>>>>> in a single go.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Certain categories *cannot *be switched off:
>>>>>>>>> -Systme Messages
>>>>>>>>> -Talk Page messages
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You bring up a very valid case, but I doubt that the
solution
>>>>>>>>> is turning entire categories off from the flyout.
>>>>>>>>> If it is spam for power users, they can turn things
off in
>>>>>>>>> Preferences.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Facebook provides a very sophisticated level of
control in the
>>>>>>>>> flyouts by letting you mute :
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Notification from User X (*Not* all talk messages)
>>>>>>>>> -Notifications about Event X (*Not* all events)
>>>>>>>>> -Notifications from X wall Post (Not all your wall
posts, just
>>>>>>>>> this specific one)
>>>>>>>>> -Notifications from the status you posted (Not your
entire
>>>>>>>>> wall)
>>>>>>>>> -Notifications for a language from a service (Not
even the
>>>>>>>>> entire app in all cases)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is the level of control we may need for some
categories,
>>>>>>>>> but it needs more thinking,
>>>>>>>>> I dont think we are there yet.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Oliver Keyes <
>>>>>>>>> okeyes(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As someone who has spent time directly observing
user
>>>>>>>>>> behaviour for many years - we have lots and lots
of evidence. For example;
>>>>>>>>>> are you aware that users semi-automatically
and/or rapidly create articles?
>>>>>>>>>> Usually translated from other projects. I
sincerely doubt that they will
>>>>>>>>>> want a notification every time.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 27 March 2013 19:32, Vibha Bamba
<vbamba(a)wikimedia.org>wrote;wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> To clarify:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 1) The safest thing that allows to build
incrementally for
>>>>>>>>>>> now is 'Ive read this > Remove
it' which is a really a simple
>>>>>>>>>>> *'Go Away'*
>>>>>>>>>>> 2 ) In addition to this we could support a*
'Clear All Read'
>>>>>>>>>>> * from the flyout so a user doesn't have
to dismiss one at
>>>>>>>>>>> a time.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This still leaves us with the problem of
cross linking
>>>>>>>>>>> notification which may be large in volume
> we could make that an
>>>>>>>>>>> *'Opt In'*
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The reason I think turning off categories in
the flyout is
>>>>>>>>>>> problematic is:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Dismissing entire categories needs more
fine tuning.
>>>>>>>>>>> Users will want to unfollow specific
things > Articles > Discussions etc.
>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Switching off categories also prevents
us from
>>>>>>>>>>> incremental fine tune controls in the
short term.
>>>>>>>>>>> 3. Other than cross links, so far we dont
have enough
>>>>>>>>>>> evidence that users will want to switch
entire categories off. We need more
>>>>>>>>>>> time and back end support to figure that
out.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Vibha Bamba
<
>>>>>>>>>>> vbamba(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I propose:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) The safest thing that allows to build
incrementally for
>>>>>>>>>>>> now is 'Ive read this > Remove
it'
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2 ) In addition to this we could support
a clear all new
>>>>>>>>>>>> from the flyout so a user doesn't
have to dismiss one at a time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This still leaves us with the problem of
cross linking
>>>>>>>>>>>> notification which may be large in volume
> we could make that an 'opt in'
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dismissing entire categories needs more
fine tuning.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Other than cross links, so far we dont
have enough evidence
>>>>>>>>>>>> that users will want to switch entire
categories off.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Users will want to unfollow specific
things > Articles >
>>>>>>>>>>>> Discussions etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>> We need more time and back end support to
figure that out.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 12:17 PM, Isarra
Yos <
>>>>>>>>>>>> zhorishna(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But having the option there at all,
if its to be removed
>>>>>>>>>>>>> later for simplicity, could even
cause problems - how quickly would users
>>>>>>>>>>>>> figure out that they dont want a kind
of message? On the first one, it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> probably wont seem worth dismissing
all of the type - might be interesting
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to get more. But once they get twenty
in the next day, then it would
>>>>>>>>>>>>> probably sink in that okay, this is
really annoying. But where did the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> option go? Wasnt there an option?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If anything it might lead them away
from their preferences
>>>>>>>>>>>>> because their preferences are not
where they saw the option initially.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 27/03/2013 13:11, Matthew Flaschen
wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/27/2013 03:09 PM, Isarra
Yos wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps Im misunderstanding
something, but if someone is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dismiss several, they wont
want a dialog showing up
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every time, but at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the same time even if they
dont want to disable all of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the type the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first time that doesnt mean
they wont want to do that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> later. The option,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if its going to be there,
needs to be there somewhat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consistently.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can still disable the
notification category in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Special:Preferences .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It may be worthwhile to keep
the main Echo interface
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (not preferences)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simpler if they choose not to
disable the category the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Matt Flaschen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> EE mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> EE(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/ee<https://lists.wikimedi…
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -— Isarra
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> EE mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> EE(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/ee<https://lists.wikimedi…
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
_______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Oliver Keyes
>>>>>>>>>> Community Liaison, Product Development
>>>>>>>>>> Wikimedia Foundation
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Oliver Keyes
>>>>>>>> Community Liaison, Product Development
>>>>>>>> Wikimedia Foundation
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> EE mailing list
>>>>>>>> EE(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Oliver Keyes
>>>>>> Community Liaison, Product Development
>>>>>> Wikimedia Foundation
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>
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Community Liaison, Product Development
Wikimedia Foundation
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