Right. So I agree we need solutions that will
work across a spectrum of
engagement levels.
But turning categories off also doesn't work for new users, *their
volume and velocity of notifications* is much smaller than the power
user.
On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 1:19 PM, Oliver Keyes <okeyes(a)wikimedia.org>wrote;wrote:
I am certainly talking about the power user; my
point is that we *do*have use cases here :). I strongly agree that new users are unlikely
to
create a volume of edits or articles in a single go, but given that our job
with EE is to turn them *into* power users, and being able to create
mechanisms to do this requires some kind of community acceptance, it seems
illogical to make product decisions based on the short-term. I'm happy to
wait until we have *more* evidence, and other people are convinced
this might be worth looking into, but "I think you may be talking about the
power user here" is never a valid argument for a feature that hits
non-newcomers.
On 27 March 2013 20:02, Vibha Bamba <vbamba(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
> Oliver, I think you may be talking about the power user here:
> New users are unlikely to create a volume of edits or articles in a
> single go.
>
> Certain categories *cannot *be switched off:
> -Systme Messages
> -Talk Page messages
>
> You bring up a very valid case, but I doubt that the solution is
> turning entire categories off from the flyout.
> If it is spam for power users, they can turn things off in Preferences.
>
> Facebook provides a very sophisticated level of control in the flyouts
> by letting you mute :
>
> -Notification from User X (*Not* all talk messages)
> -Notifications about Event X (*Not* all events)
> -Notifications from X wall Post (Not all your wall posts, just this
> specific one)
> -Notifications from the status you posted (Not your entire wall)
> -Notifications for a language from a service (Not even the entire app
> in all cases)
>
> This is the level of control we may need for some categories, but it
> needs more thinking,
> I dont think we are there yet.
>
> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Oliver Keyes <okeyes(a)wikimedia.org>wrote;wrote:
>
>> As someone who has spent time directly observing user behaviour for
>> many years - we have lots and lots of evidence. For example; are you aware
>> that users semi-automatically and/or rapidly create articles? Usually
>> translated from other projects. I sincerely doubt that they will want a
>> notification every time.
>>
>>
>> On 27 March 2013 19:32, Vibha Bamba <vbamba(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>
>>> To clarify:
>>>
>>> 1) The safest thing that allows to build incrementally for now is
>>> 'Ive read this > Remove it' which is a really a simple *'Go
Away'*
>>> 2 ) In addition to this we could support a* 'Clear All Read'* from
>>> the flyout so a user doesn't have to dismiss one at a time.
>>>
>>> This still leaves us with the problem of cross linking notification
>>> which may be large in volume > we could make that an *'Opt In'*
>>>
>>> The reason I think turning off categories in the flyout is
>>> problematic is:
>>>
>>> 1. Dismissing entire categories needs more fine tuning. Users
>>> will want to unfollow specific things > Articles > Discussions etc.
>>> 2. Switching off categories also prevents us from incremental
>>> fine tune controls in the short term.
>>> 3. Other than cross links, so far we dont have enough evidence
>>> that users will want to switch entire categories off. We need more time
and
>>> back end support to figure that out.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Vibha Bamba
<vbamba(a)wikimedia.org>wrote;wrote:
>>>
>>>> I propose:
>>>>
>>>> 1) The safest thing that allows to build incrementally for now is
>>>> 'Ive read this > Remove it'
>>>> 2 ) In addition to this we could support a clear all new from the
>>>> flyout so a user doesn't have to dismiss one at a time.
>>>>
>>>> This still leaves us with the problem of cross linking notification
>>>> which may be large in volume > we could make that an 'opt in'
>>>>
>>>> Dismissing entire categories needs more fine tuning.
>>>> Other than cross links, so far we dont have enough evidence that
>>>> users will want to switch entire categories off.
>>>> Users will want to unfollow specific things > Articles >
>>>> Discussions etc.
>>>> We need more time and back end support to figure that out.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 12:17 PM, Isarra Yos
<zhorishna(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> But having the option there at all, if its to be removed later for
>>>>> simplicity, could even cause problems - how quickly would users
figure out
>>>>> that they dont want a kind of message? On the first one, it probably
wont
>>>>> seem worth dismissing all of the type - might be interesting to get
more.
>>>>> But once they get twenty in the next day, then it would probably sink
in
>>>>> that okay, this is really annoying. But where did the option go?
Wasnt
>>>>> there an option?
>>>>>
>>>>> If anything it might lead them away from their preferences because
>>>>> their preferences are not where they saw the option initially.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 27/03/2013 13:11, Matthew Flaschen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 03/27/2013 03:09 PM, Isarra Yos wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Perhaps Im misunderstanding something, but if someone is
trying
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> dismiss several, they wont want a dialog showing up every
time,
>>>>>>> but at
>>>>>>> the same time even if they dont want to disable all of the
type
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> first time that doesnt mean they wont want to do that later.
The
>>>>>>> option,
>>>>>>> if its going to be there, needs to be there somewhat
>>>>>>> consistently.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can still disable the notification category in
>>>>>> Special:Preferences .
>>>>>> It may be worthwhile to keep the main Echo interface (not
>>>>>> preferences)
>>>>>> simpler if they choose not to disable the category the first
time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Matt Flaschen
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> -— Isarra
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
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>>>>> EE(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Oliver Keyes
>> Community Liaison, Product Development
>> Wikimedia Foundation
>>
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>
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--
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Community Liaison, Product Development
Wikimedia Foundation
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