[Wikita-l] Fw: Qs regarding village school & WP

BalaSundaraRaman sundarbecse at yahoo.com
Wed Nov 24 10:57:27 UTC 2010


விக்கிப்பீடியா பன்னாட்டுப்பிரிவு மடற்குழுவில் சூ' கா'ர்டனர் (Sue Gardner) 
விக்கிப் பயன்பாடு பற்றிய செய்திகளைக் கோரியதையடுத்து மாங்குடி நடுநிலைப்பள்ளியில் 
தமிழ் விக்கி பயன்படுத்தப்படுவதைச் சுட்டி அது தொடர்பாகத் தகவல் சேர்த்திருந்த 
இரவியையும் இணைத்து மடல் அனுப்பியிருந்தேன். அதைத் தொடர்ந்து பள்ளி மாணவர்களுக்கான 
தமிழ் விக்கித்தொகுதி (தேர்ந்தெடுத்த விக்கிப்பீடியா கட்டுரைகள் + விக்சனரி) ஒன்றை 
உருவாக்கி பள்ளிகளுக்குத் தரும் திட்டம் ஒன்றில் விக்கிமீடியா அலுவலர் செச்'சீ' 
(Jessie Wild) ஆர்வம் காட்டி வருகிறார். இது தொடர்பாக இரவியும் நானும் அவருடன் 
நடத்திய உரையாடல் கீழே உள்ளது. விரைவில் இத்திட்டத்தைத் தொடங்கலாம்.

- சுந்தர்

 "That language is an instrument of human reason, and not merely a medium for 
the expression of thought, is a truth generally admitted."
- George Boole, quoted in Iverson's Turing Award Lecture



----- Forwarded Message ----
> From: BalaSundaraRaman <sundarbecse at yahoo.com>
> To: Jessie Wild <jwild at wikimedia.org>
> Cc: ravishankar.ayyakkannu at gmail.com
> Sent: Wed, November 24, 2010 4:20:45 PM
> Subject: Re: Qs regarding village school & WP
> 
> Sorry for the delay on our part, Jessie.
> The Kenyan project is a useful  project to learn from.
> 
> Though we have a list at https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikita-l, 
>
> we still use the  Village Pump to begin most of the discussions.
> Perhaps we can start a thread  on the list or on meta and put a note at 
> http://ta.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:VP?
> 
> - Sundar
> 
>  "That language  is an instrument of human reason, and not merely a medium for 

> the expression  of thought, is a truth generally admitted."
> - George Boole, quoted in  Iverson's Turing Award Lecture
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message  ----
> > From: Jessie Wild <jwild at wikimedia.org>
> > To:  BalaSundaraRaman <sundarbecse at yahoo.com>
> > Cc: ravishankar.ayyakkannu at gmail.com
> >  Sent: Tue, November 23, 2010 12:58:10 AM
> > Subject: Re: Qs regarding  village school & WP
> > 
> > Thanks for the thorough answers - it's  so great you've thought through 
> > so  many of these things so  carefully.
> > 
> > I'm not sure if you are familiar with  the  project in Kenya that is 
> > somewhat comparable: 
> >  http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Kenya/Project_for_Kenyan_Schools
> > 
> > In  terms of next steps, I think you are right in suggesting to  put up a 
> > proposal on a wiki.  I think the approach the Kenyan  Wikimedians have 
> > taken to project planning is quite thorough and  consequently very 
> > helpful, and constructing something similar for Tamil  Nadu could 
> > likewise be beneficial.
> > 
> > I would suggest  getting other members of the  Tamil community onboard 
> > with the  planning as soon as possible; is there a  list serve that I 
> > should  get on to follow the  conversations?
> > 
> > Jessie
> > 
> > On 11/18/2010 9:31 PM, BalaSundaraRaman  wrote:
> > >> I  definitely agree that the offline versions will be useful,  and the     
>
> >type of
> > >>
> > >> project you are  describing  is exactly the type of offline     work I am 

> >helping
> > >>  orchestrate - so yes: let's brainstorm  and work     together on  this!
> > > Thanks a lot,  Jessie. :)
> > >
> > >> * For the Tamil  Wikipedia  project, is this the same project proposed    

> >back   in
> > >>
> > >> 2007,     or is it an extension  of  it?  I am curious of this ever got 
>off
> > >>   the
> > >>
> > >> ground initially.
> > > It derives  from the same  thought, but the earlier project did not go 
> >anywhere.
> > > At present, we  have more editors and hence  will be able to curate 
content
> > >  easily.
> > > We also  have richer content on many interesting  topics.
> > >
> >  >> * Also, I am curious what are you thinking for the  collection  of    
> >articles to
> > >>
> > >> be  included on  the CD.  Would you want the whole Tamil       
> >Wikipedia/Wiktionary
> > >> collection? Or would you go  through the  process     of screening the 
> >articles  to
> > >>
> > >> make  sure they were student  appropriate     / of high academic  
quality?
> > > We're  only thinking of releasing a selection of articles based  on quality 
>
> >(we've
> > > just started with a rating system),
> >  >  interestingness and suitability for students, and  comprehensiveness.
> > >  WikiProject Indian Mammals and articles on  chemical elements form a good
> > >  collection to share with  students.
> > > The above are only examples, we can  select articles  from across several
> > > categories.
> > >
> > >> *  In  addition, in regards to article selection (above point), would     
>  
>
> >the
> > >> Tamil Nadu government need to approve  the articles that  were     being
> > >> distributed  into schools?
> > > Yes,  perhaps. Due to our prior engagement with  them in the recently 
> >conducted
> > >  article writing  contest sponsored by the Government of Tamil Nadu,  
> >co-ordination
> > > would be easier. We have points of contact in  the IT  department, 
>Department 
>
> >of
> > > Translation, and the  Department of Education  in fairly senior levels. 
The
> > > Director  of Tamil Virtual Academy is also a  keen supporter of Tamil 
> >Wikipedia
> > > (and an occasional  editor).
> >  >
> > >> * Why CD? Why not USB? Just curious!
> > > I  just  thought CDs are less expensive. We can certainly evaluate USB  
> >storage.
> > >
> > >
> > >> * How are you  thinking of getting the CDs  to the different schools?      
>
> >Who is
> > >> going to  download the materials onto the  school computers?      Will 
>there  
>
> >(or
> >  >> does there need to be) any training involved?
> > > We  should  take the help of the School Education department who have 
> existing
> > >  channels.
> > > Some amount of training  will be required. The Government  already trains 
> >selected
> >  > teachers in each District on various skills and  then encourages them  to 

> >train
> > > their colleagues. We can follow the same   model. It might require us to 
> offer
> > > training in approximately  40  locations.
> > > Or we can do it at the zonal level, say, in  5-8  locations.
> > >
> > > Please suggest how we can take  this forward.
> > >  Perhaps put up a proposal on an appropriate  wiki if we're satisfied with  
>
> >the
> > > skeleton?
> >  >
> > > - Sundar
> > >
> > >
> > >     "That language is an instrument of human reason, and not merely a 
>medium  
>
> >for
> > > the expression of thought, is a truth generally  admitted."
> > > -  George Boole, quoted in Iverson's Turing  Award  Lecture
> > >
> > >
> > >> From: Jessie  Wild<jwild at wikimedia.org>
> > >>  To:  BalaSundaraRaman<sundarbecse at yahoo.com>
> >  >>  Cc:ravishankar.ayyakkannu at gmail.com
> >  >>  Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 4:45:14 AM
> > >>  Subject: Re: Qs regarding  village school&  WP
> >  >>
> > >> Thanks,  Sundar.
> > >>
> >  >> I definitely agree that the offline versions  will be useful, and  the    
>
> >type of
> > >>
> > >>  project  you are describing is exactly the type of offline      work I 
>am  
>
> >helping
> > >> orchestrate - so yes: let's  brainstorm and work      together on this!
> >  >>
> > >>
> > >> A couple questions to get  our  conversations going:
> > >> * For the Tamil Wikipedia project, is  this  the same project proposed    

> >back in
> >  >>
> > >>  2007,     or is it an extension of  it?  I am curious of this ever  got 
>off
> > >> the
> >  >>
> > >> ground  initially.
> > >>
> >  >> * Also, I am curious what are you thinking  for the collection  of    
> >articles to
> > >>
> > >> be   included on the CD.  Would you want the whole Tamil      
> >Wikipedia/Wiktionary
> > >> collection? Or would you go  through the  process     of screening the 
> >articles  to
> > >>
> > >> make  sure they were student  appropriate     / of high academic  
quality?
> >  >>
> > >> * In addition, in regards to article selection   (above point), would    
> the
> > >> Tamil Nadu  government need to  approve the articles that were      being
> > >> distributed into  schools?
> > >>
> >  >> * Why CD? Why not USB? Just  curious!
> > >>
> >  >> * How are you thinking of getting the CDs to  the different  schools?    
>  
>
> >Who is
> > >> going to  download  the materials onto the school computers?      Will  
>there  
>
> >(or
> > >> does there need to be) any  training  involved?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>  Sorry for the many questions -  hopefully they'll push us closer to     
> some
> > >> productive  movement!
> > >>  Jessie
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 11/17/2010   7:05 PM, BalaSundaraRaman wrote:
> > >> Hi Jessie,
> >  >>> On  another note, we at Tamil Wikipedia have been  discussing            
>
> >ways to
> >  >>> publish an offline edition (primarily  CD-based) of            selected 

> >articles
> > >>   >from Tamil Wikipedia and possibly the whole             of Tamil 
> >Wiktionary. Will
> > >>
> >  >>> you be interested  in helping with             this?
> > >>>
> > >>>
> >  >>> This will be useful in  schools, because the TN  government           
>has  
>
> >provided
> >  >>>
> > >>> almost every school with a couple of   computers.           In fact, 
>they're  
>
> >also
> > >>> training the teachers (including my mom)             in basic computer 
> >usage.   With
> > >>>
> > >>> an offline edition, students  can            immediately benefit 
>regardless 
>
> >of
> > >>>  whether they have access to            the  internet.
> > >>>
> >  >>>
> > >>> -  Sundar
> > >>>
> >  > "That language is an instrument of human reason,  and not merely          
>a 
>
> >medium
> > >
> > > for the   expression of thought, is a truth generally           admitted."
> > >>> - George Boole, quoted in Iverson's Turing  Award  Lecture
> > >>>
> > >>>
> >  >>>
> > >>>>  From: Jessie Wild<jwild at wikimedia.org>
> >  >>>>  To:sundarbecse at yahoo.com;ravishankar.ayyakkannu at gmail.com
> >  >>>>  Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 12:56:55 AM
> >  >>>> Subject: Qs  regarding village school&   WP
> > >>>>
> > >>>>  Sundar / Ravishankar  -
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thanks for  sharing  this wonderful story below! What a                 

> >great
> > >>>> example of how WP can be  useful in  schools.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> So,  I'm working on the  development and deployment of
> > >  offline
> > >>>> Wikipedia, and  the areas we think will be  most                
>effective 
>
> >to  get
> > >>>> into are schools in areas without                 consistent access to  

> >Internet.
> > >>>> To that end, hearing this                 story raised a couple  
>immediate
> > >>>>  questions in my mind which                I  thought I'd ask you:
> >  >>>>
> > >>>> (1) What was this  school's  connection to the Internet?                 
>
> >That is,
> > >>>> were they connecting to   Wikipedia/Wiktionary                 online?
> > >>>> (2) What exactly is a "state-funded free   education              
> >school"?   Does
> > >>>>
> > >>>>  that just mean that students do not  have to                pay to 
>attend, 
>
> >or  is
> >  >>>> this a specific type of school                 (sorry, I am not 
>familiar 
>
> >with the
> >  >>>>  phrase so just want to                make  sure I understand!)?
> > >>>> (3) Why  did Mr. Jothimani choose to  use               
> >Wikipedia/Wiktionary  over
> > >>>>
> >  >>>> other sources?
> > >>>>  (4) Do we know if  the students had used Wikipedia prior               
>  to 
>
> >the
> > >>>> launch of this   project?  Had the teachers?
> > >>>>
> >  >>>> Thank  you both so much; what an awesome story!
> >  >>>>  Jessie
> > >>>>
> >  >>>>
> > >>>> On 11/16/2010  8:15 PM,  BalaSundaraRaman wrote:
> > >>>> Hi Sue,  I just got   reminded of the following story about how students 
>
> >and   staff
> > >>>>
> > >>>> of a  village  school  benefited from Tamil Wikipedia. We found this 
>from 
>
> >an
> > >>>>  article in a magazine called "pudhiya  thalaimurai" (New  Generation) 
>and  
>
> >another
> >  >>>>
> > >>>> blogpost.[1] It is about how a   school headmaster Mr.Jothimani 
>transformed 
>
> >the
> >  >>>>  state-funded  free education school at a village  Mangudi near 
>Kumbakonam  
>
> >in
> > >>>> Tamil Nadu.  Among  others, it includes a section on  how Tamil 
>Wikipedia 
>
> >and
> > >>>> Wiktionary are being  used by   the students and staff. Subsequently, a 

> >Tamil
> > >>>>  Wikipedian  Ravishankar Ayyakkannu (User:Ravidreams) called   
>Mr.Jothimani  
>
> >over
> > >>>> phone and collected  more information. He wrote the  findings in the 
>Tamil
> >  >>>> Wikipedia blogpost.[2]   Translation of some excerpts: *  Students of 
> >sixth,
> > >>>> seventh,  and eighth  standard (aged ~11-13) use Tamil  Wikipedia.  * 
>One  
>
> >class
> > >>>> everyday is dedicated for Wikipedia  during school  hours. During this  

> >period,
> >  >>>> students research about the  topics that they learned that  day in 
>other  
>
> >classes
> > >>>>  (examples  below). If they need to access the Wiki for their home 
>work,  
>
> >writing
> > >>>> or speaking contests, students spend  time online  during lunch or
> > >>> after   hours.
> > >>>> * They  find the information accessible  most of the time.  * Teachers 
>too 
>
> >find  it
> >  >>>>
> > >>>> useful.  * They felt that  they  could use more of local information 
>about 
>
> >their
> >  >>>>  district  and about Tamil Nadu and India in  general.  * Example use  

> >cases:  if
> >  >>>> the teacher gives a topic "statesmen",  students  look  for Nehru, 
> >Kamarajar,
> > >>>> etc., If they  give  a story writing contest of the title "a  story of 
> >itself  told
> > >>>>
> > >>>> by  River Cauvery", they search for  the article on the river  and write 
>
> >the
> > >>>> details in  first person. They also go  find other interlinked  articles 
>on  
>
> >Coorg,
> >  >>>>
> > >>>> Poombuhar, etc., and get excited   about their findings. The  headmaster 
>
> >finds
> >  >>>> that the  students' creative expression has clearly  increased  after  

> >introducing
> > >>>> Tamil  Wikipedia. A student who would write 20  sentences on a  topic 
>now 
>
> >writes
> > >>>> 60 sentences.  *  They also  use the Tamil Wiktionary which has nearly 
>two  
>
> >hundred
> >  >>>>
> > >>>> thousand  entries including   technical glossaries donated by the Tamil 

> >Virtual
> >  >>>>  Academy.   Given that typically students in such  remote villages do 
>not  
>
> >have
> > >>>> access to  much  information, the utility of this  exposure is immense. 

> >Also, most
> > >>>>
> > >>>> of  the  students of state-run schools come from under-previleged and  
> >low-income
> > >>>> families. Given that, this helps to  even out the  systemic bias  
> >somewhat.  I've
> >  >>>> taken the liberty  to copy Ravishankar who spoke to the  headmaster.  
-
> > >  Sundar
> > >>>> [1]   -http://infinityholes.blogspot.com/2009/10/blog-post.html  (in 
>Tamil) 
>
> >[2]  -
> > >>>>   http://tamilwikipedia.blogspot.com/2009/10/blog-post_5826.html  (in  
> >Tamil)  "That
> > >>>>
> > >>>>  language is an  instrument of human reason, and not merely a medium  
>for  
>
> >the
> > >>>> expression of thought, is a  truth generally admitted." -  George Boole, 
>
> >quoted in
> >  >>>>
> > >>>> Iverson's Turing  Award  Lecture    ----- Original Message  ----
> >  >>>>
> > >>>>> From: Sue Gardner<sgardner at wikimedia.org>   To:  "Local Chapters, board 
>
> >and
> > >>>>>  officers coordination (closed  
> >subscription)"<Internal-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> >  >>>>>  Sent: Thu, November 11, 2010 12:01:48 PM Subject:  [Internal-l] 
>Looking  
>
> >for
> > >>>>> stories of  readers affected by Wikipedia  Hi  folks,  Megan Hernandez 
>on 
>
> >the
> > >>>>> staff is looking out  for me, for  stories  of readers whose lives 
>have  
>
> >been
> >  >>>>> impacted by Wikipedia or the  other projects.   (Donors often send us 

> >stories  like
> >  >>>>>
> > >>>>> that, and I am   often  looking for stories to tell people about the 
> >projects.   So
> > >>>>> I've  asked her to send good ones to  me.)   I was writing her a set 
>of  
>
> >criteria
> >  >>>>> for the kinds  of stories I want, and it occurred to  me that you   
>might
> > >>>>> yourselves have some good  stories of exactly this  kind. So I am 
>sending  
>
> >along
> >  >>>>> the criteria here too  :-) If you have stories that  fit many/all of  

> >these
> > >>>>>  criteria,  please send them to me, onlist or off. And please forgive  
>my
> >  >>>>> cross-posting to several lists at once.  Thanks,   Sue  *  Ideally, 
>they'd 
>
> >be
> > >>>>> along  the theme of  "how Wikipedia made my life better."  This might  
>be  
>
> >an
> > >>>>> anecdote, or bigger-picture  (ie, 'how Wikipedia makes  my  life better 
>
> >every
> >  >>>>> day').  * Ideally, they  would be stories of  people  who
> > >>>>>  pre-exposure-to-Wikipedia  would have had circumscribed access  to  
> >information.
> >  >>>>> Because they grew up in a small town with  no   library, because their 
>
> >school
> > >>>>> didn't  stock  certain kinds of books,  because materials in their 
> >language are  of
> > >>>>>
> >  >>>>> limited availability,  because  their government  limits access to 
>certain  
>
> >types
> > >>>>> of  information --  in general, because  their
> >  >>>>  economic/political/socio-cultural
> >  >>>>> circumstances somehow  impede(d) easy access to  information.  * 
>Ideally,  
>
> >the
> > >>>>>  information that Wikipedia gives them is important,  and directly,  
> >immediately
> > >>>>> useful. Like, it helped   them better understand a health issue  they 
>were  
>
> >having,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> or it  equipped them to  do some important task better; it  helped 
>them  
>
> >understand
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> a  new situation or  some aspect of themselves, or  enabled them to  
>solve  
>
> >an
> > >>>>> important problem. Maybe it  helped them get a  job  they otherwise 
> >couldn't have
> >  >>>>> gotten, or  enabled them to avoid some specific   danger or risk.  * 
> >And/or,  the
> > >>>>>  information fed a general curiosity and  desire  to understand the  
>world 
>
> >better.
> > >>>>> It got them interested   in going  to college which nobody in their 
>family  
>
> >had
> >  >>>>> done before, it helped  them develop a more   thoughtful position on a 
>
> >public
> > >>>>> policy  issue,  it  stimulated them to travel or read more widely, or 
>to  
>
> >question
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>  assumptions they had  been making.  * Ideally, their lives are   
>better  
>
> >today
> > >>>>> because of the  information they are exposed to via  Wikipedia.  Maybe 

> >this  would
> > >>>>> be better in some  really specific way  -- like, "Three months  later 
>I  
>
> >persuaded
> >  >>>>> my doctor to let me try the new treatment, and  it  worked."  Or, it 
>might 
>
> >be  much
> >  >>>>>
> > >>>>> more general.  * It  is  fine if the information  they found on 
>Wikipedia  
>
> >might
> > >>>>> otherwise have been kept from them,  either   deliberately or through 
>lack 
>
> >of  easy
> >  >>>>>
> > >>>>> opportunity. It is fine  if  the  information is considered risky or  
> >controversial
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>  in some   way.    Sue Gardner Executive Director Wikimedia    
>Foundation  
>
> >415 839
> > >>>>> 6885 office 415  816 9967  cell  Imagine a  world in which every 
>single  
>
> >human
> > >>>>> being can freely share in the sum of  all   knowledge.  Help us make it 
>a
> > >>>>>   reality!http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
> >  >>>>>  _______________________________________________  Internal-l  mailing  
>
> >list
> > >>>>> Internal-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> >  >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-l
> >  >>>>>
> > >>>>   _______________________________________________ Internal-l mailing   
>list
> > >>>> Internal-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> >  >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-l
> >  >>>>
> > >>>  --  Jessie Wild Special  Projects Manager Gloabl Development  Wikimedia
> > >>  Foundation
> > > --  Jessie Wild Special Projects  Manager  Gloabl Development Wikimedia 
> >Foundation
> > 
> > -- 
> >  Jessie  Wild
> > Special Projects Manager
> > Gloabl  Development
> > Wikimedia  Foundation
> > 
> >
> 



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