[Wikipedia-l] Wikipedia-l Digest, Vol 59, Issue 1

Sun Jun 1 14:30:24 UTC 2008

Just to remember you that issues about de :en should be argueed in the :en, 
not in the list of wikimedia

Thanks,


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <wikipedia-l-request at lists.wikimedia.org>
To: <wikipedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 7:42 AM
Subject: Wikipedia-l Digest, Vol 59, Issue 1


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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Useability (Florence Devouard)
>   2. Re: Useability (Jussi-Ville Heiskanen)
>   3. Re: Useability (Florence Devouard)
>   4. Re: Useability (Jussi-Ville Heiskanen)
>   5. Re: Useability (Elias Friedman)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 16:30:16 +0200
> From: Florence Devouard <Anthere9 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Useability
> To: wikipedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> Message-ID: <g1rndu$uai$1 at ger.gmane.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Jussi-Ville Heiskanen wrote:
>> Florence Devouard wrote:
>>> Jussi-Ville Heiskanen wrote:
>>>> Florence Devouard wrote:
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>> The menu on the left hand side lists, in this order
>>>>>
>>>>> Navigation
>>>>> Main Page
>>>>> Contents
>>>>> Featured content
>>>>> Current events
>>>>> Random article
>>>>> interaction
>>>>> About Wikipedia
>>>>> Community portal
>>>>> Recent changes
>>>>> Contact Wikipedia
>>>>> Donate to Wikipedia
>>>>> Help
>>>>> search
>>>>> search box
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------
>>>>>
>>>>> Problem: on small screens, the search box is not visible and readers
>>>>> must scroll each time they get to a new page to find it.
>>>>> Whether we are happy with this, or would prefer that people navigate
>>>>> three featured content or indexes or random article, does not change 
>>>>> the
>>>>> fact that most poeple actually use search system on internet.
>>>>>
>>>>> What about changing the search box place ?
>>>>> Perhaps under the logo. Or below the Navigation block. Or fully at the
>>>>> top of the page ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Ant
>>>> I think if you mosey over to Special:Preferences and choose the
>>>> Skin Classic, your problems are much eased.
>>>>
>>>> A completely different question is why it is only Classic
>>>> that places the box in that convenient location...
>>>>
>>>> Yours;
>>>>
>>>> Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
>>> Jussi
>>>
>>> Note that I enjoy a large laptop which does not create this problem.
>>>
>>> It was reported to me by a head of web companies (whose name I will not
>>> give) and who use a smaller laptop. Most users/readers of wikipedia have
>>> NO idea there are different skins, and that they might have access to a
>>> different interface if they were loggued-in.
>>>
>>> Ant
>>
>> Interesting. Reminds me of when we originally moved to
>> "monobook". There was a real but brief episode where
>> somebody using the nick "bgates" came into the channel
>> #wikipedia on Internet Relay Chat, and very swiftly
>> exited, after getting an answer that appeared to all
>> present to be a sincerely technical one...
>>
>> I confess I have ever since wondered was that the "real"
>> "bgates" or just somebody with a sense of humour, who
>> nevertheless was discomfited by our move to monobook.
>>
>> Yours,
>>
>> Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
>
> Eh :-)
>
> Well, in this case, the guy was real :-)
> I met him at http://assisesdunumerique.fr/actualites/
>
> Nice opportunity by the way, to mention that last week, I met with
> various important people (at French scale), in the name of our prime
> minister (Fillon), the minister of education and research (Pecresse) and
> the secretary in charge of Innovation, digital economy and etc ... (Eric
> Besson).
>
> I had the very "blushing-experience" of being both cited by Fillon
> (once) and Besson (twice) in a public event. I actually met Besson 3
> times in two days, including a 7 members-2 hours breakfast at the
> minister, around digital economy considerations.
>
> One of the top (hot) topic is that Besson has been asked by the prime
> minister to come with a series of propositions by end of july, regarding
> digital economy in France. I must point out that the very-short delay
> for this plan is
> 1) because our government was restructed recently (and for the first
> time, digital economy was given to a specific minister, rather than
> being nicely divided between minister of culture, of education, of
> industry etc..., and
> 2) because France will become president of Europe this summer, so
> obviously want to be a leading force of proposition in various areas,
> including internet considerations.
>
> Anyway, the Assises du Numerique are usually an opportunity for
> *important* people (that is... politicians, industrial leaders, public
> services) to discuss of the future of our country and come up with
> propositions. Access is restricted.
>
> This year, they decided to have unrestricted access to the Assises, the
> expand them to a collection of local Assises all accross the country, to
> let completely open the number of propositions which can be done, AND to
> open a wiki to either comment or tweak the current propositions, or to
> make NEW propositions. Is not that amazing ?
>
> THe wiki was opened yesterday:
> http://wiki.assisesdunumerique.fr/xwiki/bin/view/Assises/
>
> Poeple must log in to access the wiki, but creation of account is
> totally opened. I tested it yesterday during the Assises. License is
> cc-by 1.0.
>
> I hope the french editors will take direct action and be a force of
> proposition. Otherwise, it would really mean that we should not complain
> in the future if the laws and activity of the government does not please
> us. We should only complain if they refuse our propositions ;-)
>
> More to come later on the topic. Just wanted to mention it was the first
> time that my government was actually OPENING a place for us to work on
> action points together.
>
> THIS is also thanks to us guys...
>
> Ant
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 21:14:37 +0300
> From: Jussi-Ville Heiskanen <cimonavaro at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Useability
> To: wikipedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> Message-ID: <4841958D.4010109 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Florence Devouard wrote:
>> Jussi-Ville Heiskanen wrote:
>>> Interesting. Reminds me of when we originally moved to
>>> "monobook". There was a real but brief episode where
>>> somebody using the nick "bgates" came into the channel
>>> #wikipedia on Internet Relay Chat, and very swiftly
>>> exited, after getting an answer that appeared to all
>>> present to be a sincerely technical one...
>>>
>>> I confess I have ever since wondered was that the "real"
>>> "bgates" or just somebody with a sense of humour, who
>>> nevertheless was discomfited by our move to monobook.
>>>
>>> Yours,
>>>
>>> Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
>>
>> Eh :-)
>>
>> Well, in this case, the guy was real :-)
>> I met him at http://assisesdunumerique.fr/actualites/
>>
>> Nice opportunity by the way, to mention that last week, I met with
>> various important people (at French scale), in the name of our prime
>> minister (Fillon), the minister of education and research (Pecresse) and
>> the secretary in charge of Innovation, digital economy and etc ... (Eric
>> Besson).
>>
>> I had the very "blushing-experience" of being both cited by Fillon
>> (once) and Besson (twice) in a public event. I actually met Besson 3
>> times in two days, including a 7 members-2 hours breakfast at the
>> minister, around digital economy considerations.
>>
>> One of the top (hot) topic is that Besson has been asked by the prime
>> minister to come with a series of propositions by end of july, regarding
>> digital economy in France. I must point out that the very-short delay
>> for this plan is
>> 1) because our government was restructed recently (and for the first
>> time, digital economy was given to a specific minister, rather than
>> being nicely divided between minister of culture, of education, of
>> industry etc..., and
>> 2) because France will become president of Europe this summer, so
>> obviously want to be a leading force of proposition in various areas,
>> including internet considerations.
>>
>> Anyway, the Assises du Numerique are usually an opportunity for
>> *important* people (that is... politicians, industrial leaders, public
>> services) to discuss of the future of our country and come up with
>> propositions. Access is restricted.
>>
>> This year, they decided to have unrestricted access to the Assises, the
>> expand them to a collection of local Assises all accross the country, to
>> let completely open the number of propositions which can be done, AND to
>> open a wiki to either comment or tweak the current propositions, or to
>> make NEW propositions. Is not that amazing ?
>>
>> THe wiki was opened yesterday:
>> http://wiki.assisesdunumerique.fr/xwiki/bin/view/Assises/
>>
>> Poeple must log in to access the wiki, but creation of account is
>> totally opened. I tested it yesterday during the Assises. License is
>> cc-by 1.0.
>>
>> I hope the french editors will take direct action and be a force of
>> proposition. Otherwise, it would really mean that we should not complain
>> in the future if the laws and activity of the government does not please
>> us. We should only complain if they refuse our propositions ;-)
>>
>> More to come later on the topic. Just wanted to mention it was the first
>> time that my government was actually OPENING a place for us to work on
>> action points together.
>>
>> THIS is also thanks to us guys...
>>
>> Ant
>
> Very cool indeed. Just to continue on the theme of namedropping...
>
> Bessons opposite number in Finnish government
> ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyrki_J._J._Kasvi ) is a very
> old friend of mine - when I say old, I mean "when people used
> to wear bell-bottoms" old.
>
> Though Kasvi isn't currently so well known for his technology &
> future related endevours, but as one of the prime movers in the
> scandal that is currently shaking the whole Finnish political
> system to its core, in regard to transparency of political
> funding.
>
> Though it is cool to add that my old friend has been very
> active in updating all the articles on Finnish Parliamentarians
> on The wikipedia.
>
> Yours,
>
> Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 00:01:24 +0200
> From: Florence Devouard <Anthere9 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Useability
> To: wikipedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> Message-ID: <g1shrp$62c$1 at ger.gmane.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Jussi-Ville Heiskanen wrote:
>> Florence Devouard wrote:
>>> Jussi-Ville Heiskanen wrote:
>>>> Interesting. Reminds me of when we originally moved to
>>>> "monobook". There was a real but brief episode where
>>>> somebody using the nick "bgates" came into the channel
>>>> #wikipedia on Internet Relay Chat, and very swiftly
>>>> exited, after getting an answer that appeared to all
>>>> present to be a sincerely technical one...
>>>>
>>>> I confess I have ever since wondered was that the "real"
>>>> "bgates" or just somebody with a sense of humour, who
>>>> nevertheless was discomfited by our move to monobook.
>>>>
>>>> Yours,
>>>>
>>>> Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
>>> Eh :-)
>>>
>>> Well, in this case, the guy was real :-)
>>> I met him at http://assisesdunumerique.fr/actualites/
>>>
>>> Nice opportunity by the way, to mention that last week, I met with
>>> various important people (at French scale), in the name of our prime
>>> minister (Fillon), the minister of education and research (Pecresse) and
>>> the secretary in charge of Innovation, digital economy and etc ... (Eric
>>> Besson).
>>>
>>> I had the very "blushing-experience" of being both cited by Fillon
>>> (once) and Besson (twice) in a public event. I actually met Besson 3
>>> times in two days, including a 7 members-2 hours breakfast at the
>>> minister, around digital economy considerations.
>>>
>>> One of the top (hot) topic is that Besson has been asked by the prime
>>> minister to come with a series of propositions by end of july, regarding
>>> digital economy in France. I must point out that the very-short delay
>>> for this plan is
>>> 1) because our government was restructed recently (and for the first
>>> time, digital economy was given to a specific minister, rather than
>>> being nicely divided between minister of culture, of education, of
>>> industry etc..., and
>>> 2) because France will become president of Europe this summer, so
>>> obviously want to be a leading force of proposition in various areas,
>>> including internet considerations.
>>>
>>> Anyway, the Assises du Numerique are usually an opportunity for
>>> *important* people (that is... politicians, industrial leaders, public
>>> services) to discuss of the future of our country and come up with
>>> propositions. Access is restricted.
>>>
>>> This year, they decided to have unrestricted access to the Assises, the
>>> expand them to a collection of local Assises all accross the country, to
>>> let completely open the number of propositions which can be done, AND to
>>> open a wiki to either comment or tweak the current propositions, or to
>>> make NEW propositions. Is not that amazing ?
>>>
>>> THe wiki was opened yesterday:
>>> http://wiki.assisesdunumerique.fr/xwiki/bin/view/Assises/
>>>
>>> Poeple must log in to access the wiki, but creation of account is
>>> totally opened. I tested it yesterday during the Assises. License is
>>> cc-by 1.0.
>>>
>>> I hope the french editors will take direct action and be a force of
>>> proposition. Otherwise, it would really mean that we should not complain
>>> in the future if the laws and activity of the government does not please
>>> us. We should only complain if they refuse our propositions ;-)
>>>
>>> More to come later on the topic. Just wanted to mention it was the first
>>> time that my government was actually OPENING a place for us to work on
>>> action points together.
>>>
>>> THIS is also thanks to us guys...
>>>
>>> Ant
>>
>> Very cool indeed. Just to continue on the theme of namedropping...
>>
>> Bessons opposite number in Finnish government
>> ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyrki_J._J._Kasvi ) is a very
>> old friend of mine - when I say old, I mean "when people used
>> to wear bell-bottoms" old.
>
> Can you clarify the meaning of that delicate old-saying ?
>
>> Though Kasvi isn't currently so well known for his technology &
>> future related endevours, but as one of the prime movers in the
>> scandal that is currently shaking the whole Finnish political
>> system to its core, in regard to transparency of political
>> funding.
>
> What is this scandal about ? :-)
>
> Ant
>
>> Though it is cool to add that my old friend has been very
>> active in updating all the articles on Finnish Parliamentarians
>> on The wikipedia.
>>
>> Yours,
>>
>> Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 06:34:05 +0300
> From: Jussi-Ville Heiskanen <cimonavaro at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Useability
> To: wikipedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> Message-ID: <484218AD.7060105 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Florence Devouard wrote:
>> Jussi-Ville Heiskanen wrote:
>>> Florence Devouard wrote:
>>>> Jussi-Ville Heiskanen wrote:
>>>>> Interesting. Reminds me of when we originally moved to
>>>>> "monobook". There was a real but brief episode where
>>>>> somebody using the nick "bgates" came into the channel
>>>>> #wikipedia on Internet Relay Chat, and very swiftly
>>>>> exited, after getting an answer that appeared to all
>>>>> present to be a sincerely technical one...
>>>>>
>>>>> I confess I have ever since wondered was that the "real"
>>>>> "bgates" or just somebody with a sense of humour, who
>>>>> nevertheless was discomfited by our move to monobook.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yours,
>>>>>
>>>>> Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
>>>> Eh :-)
>>>>
>>>> Well, in this case, the guy was real :-)
>>>> I met him at http://assisesdunumerique.fr/actualites/
>>>>
>>>> Nice opportunity by the way, to mention that last week, I met with
>>>> various important people (at French scale), in the name of our prime
>>>> minister (Fillon), the minister of education and research (Pecresse) 
>>>> and
>>>> the secretary in charge of Innovation, digital economy and etc ... 
>>>> (Eric
>>>> Besson).
>>>>
>>>> I had the very "blushing-experience" of being both cited by Fillon
>>>> (once) and Besson (twice) in a public event. I actually met Besson 3
>>>> times in two days, including a 7 members-2 hours breakfast at the
>>>> minister, around digital economy considerations.
>>>>
>>>> One of the top (hot) topic is that Besson has been asked by the prime
>>>> minister to come with a series of propositions by end of july, 
>>>> regarding
>>>> digital economy in France. I must point out that the very-short delay
>>>> for this plan is
>>>> 1) because our government was restructed recently (and for the first
>>>> time, digital economy was given to a specific minister, rather than
>>>> being nicely divided between minister of culture, of education, of
>>>> industry etc..., and
>>>> 2) because France will become president of Europe this summer, so
>>>> obviously want to be a leading force of proposition in various areas,
>>>> including internet considerations.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, the Assises du Numerique are usually an opportunity for
>>>> *important* people (that is... politicians, industrial leaders, public
>>>> services) to discuss of the future of our country and come up with
>>>> propositions. Access is restricted.
>>>>
>>>> This year, they decided to have unrestricted access to the Assises, the
>>>> expand them to a collection of local Assises all accross the country, 
>>>> to
>>>> let completely open the number of propositions which can be done, AND 
>>>> to
>>>> open a wiki to either comment or tweak the current propositions, or to
>>>> make NEW propositions. Is not that amazing ?
>>>>
>>>> THe wiki was opened yesterday:
>>>> http://wiki.assisesdunumerique.fr/xwiki/bin/view/Assises/
>>>>
>>>> Poeple must log in to access the wiki, but creation of account is
>>>> totally opened. I tested it yesterday during the Assises. License is
>>>> cc-by 1.0.
>>>>
>>>> I hope the french editors will take direct action and be a force of
>>>> proposition. Otherwise, it would really mean that we should not 
>>>> complain
>>>> in the future if the laws and activity of the government does not 
>>>> please
>>>> us. We should only complain if they refuse our propositions ;-)
>>>>
>>>> More to come later on the topic. Just wanted to mention it was the 
>>>> first
>>>> time that my government was actually OPENING a place for us to work on
>>>> action points together.
>>>>
>>>> THIS is also thanks to us guys...
>>>>
>>>> Ant
>>> Very cool indeed. Just to continue on the theme of namedropping...
>>>
>>> Bessons opposite number in Finnish government
>>> ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyrki_J._J._Kasvi ) is a very
>>> old friend of mine - when I say old, I mean "when people used
>>> to wear bell-bottoms" old.
>>
>> Can you clarify the meaning of that delicate old-saying ?
>
> In practical terms, I first met him at a science fiction
> convention in Sweden, in the 1980's (85 - 87 or thereabouts.
> He is a genuinely good guy who has made the international
> press through having his election campaign web pages include
> a klingon language version.
>
>>
>>> Though Kasvi isn't currently so well known for his technology &
>>> future related endevours, but as one of the prime movers in the
>>> scandal that is currently shaking the whole Finnish political
>>> system to its core, in regard to transparency of political
>>> funding.
>>
>> What is this scandal about ? :-)
>
> It seems there was an "accepted practise" whereby politicians
> would "finesse" a law they had themselves passed about publicity
> of conflict of interests, through disclosing only innocently
> named "shell associations" as their campaign financers, so as to
> avoid having to disclose the businessmens identity who were the
> real force behind those associations which had no other function
> than to be a nice name to disclose.
>
> This would have continued with very lax scrutiny, but for one
> politician refusing to name even the shell companys name, because
> he had assurances that though illegal, such non-disclosure would
> carry no punishment.
>
> The poor chap had entirely forgot the court of public opinion.
>
> :D
>
> As my friend J. J. Kasvi asked some very pointed questions
> about these kind of acts from a person who is supposed to pass
> the laws, the press have had a field day, exposing the
> money-men behind the curtains.
>
>>> Though it is cool to add that my old friend has been very
>>> active in updating all the articles on Finnish Parliamentarians
>>> on The wikipedia.
>
> yours
>
> Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 01:42:18 -0400
> From: "Elias Friedman" <elipongo at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Useability
> To: wikipedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> Message-ID:
> <365b4bc60805312242h5845dfa1k5045e19a1e85f37e at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 4:29 AM, Florence Devouard <Anthere9 at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Problem: on small screens, the search box is not visible and readers
>> must scroll each time they get to a new page to find it.
>> Whether we are happy with this, or would prefer that people navigate
>> three featured content or indexes or random article, does not change the
>> fact that most poeple actually use search system on internet.
>>
>> What about changing the search box place ?
>> Perhaps under the logo. Or below the Navigation block. Or fully at the
>> top of the page ?
>>
>> Ant <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l>
>>
>
>
> There's actually a discussion going on currently about this very
> issue/proposal  at:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28proposals%29#Move_the_search_box_directly_beneath_the_puzzle_globe
>
> or, if that link's too long for your email reader try:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/48l3ww
>
> Cheers!
>
>
> -- 
> Elias Friedman A.S., EMT-P
> President Congregation Knesseth Israel
> http://www.ellingtonshul.org/
>
> elipongo at gmail.com
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Elipongo
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>
>
> End of Wikipedia-l Digest, Vol 59, Issue 1
> ******************************************