[Wikipedia-l] Entries for deletion.... issues from the Third World

Tue Jan 9 12:51:22 UTC 2007

Yes. If you interview Jack Neo, you should keep a copy of it somewhere
online or on your personal computer. You may reference it from the
article, but it is of the utmost importance that you can produce a
copy of the interview if anyone wants it.

Mark

On 09/01/07, J.L.W.S. The Special One <hildanknight at gmail.com> wrote:
> A very interesting and comprehensive post.
>
> You forgot to mention about the language barrier.
>
> I agree that verifiability is important, but making it compulsory
> introduces problems such as systemic bias.
>
> Where should we raise this issue for further discussion?
>
> I've been working on an article on a Singaporean movie - I Not Stupid.
> It's close to GA status, but there is very little referenced
> information on the production of the film. My friend suggested I
> interview Jack Neo - my idol, who wrote the movie. Since his child
> studies in my school, getting an interview is not out of the question.
> The problem is: how do I publish it?
>
> On 1/9/07, Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com> wrote:
> > This is true. However, is there a workable solution to that?
> >
> > I remember when people didn't worry too much about references on
> > Wikipedia. Sure, you were supposed to have them, but as long as you
> > had a nice article, nobody cared.
> >
> > Well, what if I know the truth, but it is not written anywhere? What
> > if I interview 100 people to make sure they agree, and they do? What
> > if it is common knowledge in my village, which nobody will challenge?
> >
> > The answer: it will be labeled "unverifiable" or "non-notable" and deleted.
> >
> > Wikipedia's current message to the world: If it's never been written
> > about, or been mentioned in a sound recording or a film, it's not
> > important.
> >
> > Well:
> >
> > 1) Not all cultures have writing.
> > 2) Among those cultures which DO have writing, they each place
> > different importance values on it. In my daily life, I am using it
> > constantly. My desk is littered with books with their titles written
> > on them, products with their labels. If I go driving, some of the
> > signs will have writing on them, there are billboards, signs for
> > businesses, all of them using writing. But in some cultures, writing
> > may not be used so extensively. Maybe it is usually just used for
> > poetry, or just for writing letters to people who are far away. The
> > concept of mass communication is foreign to most cultures still, and
> > if you don't need mass communication, writing is hardly necessary,
> > except to write a letter to someone who is not present.
> > 3) Among the population of the Earth, a very, very large portion live
> > in societies that are not highly literate or which don't place a high
> > importance on writing. Most societies don't record every aspect of
> > life the way we do. Yes, there are newspapers in India (although to
> > the best of my knowledge there are no newspapers in Igbo or Aymara or
> > Afar), there are books in Nepal, but if you look it up, the sheer
> > volume of materials published in the First World per-capita far, far,
> > far, far exceeds that of anywhere else.
> >
> > Here, if someone sees an insect doing something strange, they write a
> > paper or a book about it, and if they don't, somebody else will! But
> > in most countries, this is not the case. Books cost money to make.
> > People in developing countries often don't have this money. There are
> > no or (comparatively) few publishers there, and those that do exist
> > cannot afford to put out the sheer volume of books put out by
> > publishers here because the demand tends to be much lower (especially
> > for non-fiction books). They do not have Amazon.com or massive
> > real-life bookstores, so "specialty" books would not sell because they
> > would have no way to reach their intended audience!
> >
> > And they say, that the internet will change all this. Well, in these
> > societies, although internet access is on the rise, it is still very,
> > very, low. Even if you do have internet access, it takes a somewhat
> > higher degree of computer literacy to be able to _publish_ on the
> > internet. What? You want to put your knowledge on Wikipedia? Go ahead!
> >
> > ...
> >
> > Sorry, your knowledge is not referenced. It has been deleted. You know
> > nothing that is worth anything.
> >
> > We are telling the developing world that they do not matter and that
> > they are stupid.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > On 09/01/07, J.L.W.S. The Special One <hildanknight at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Requiring verifiability creates systemic bias. To be more accurate, it
> > > enforces the systemic bias of existing references.
> > >
> > > On 1/9/07, Michael Billington <michael.billington at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On 1/9/07, Lars Aronsson <lars at aronsson.se> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Andre Engels wrote:
> > > > > > I guess I should not go into the examples, but in this case my opinion
> > > > > is
> > > > > > that 50,000 would be too high a limit,  I myself would be thinking of
> > > > > 2,000
> > > > > > or 5,000.
> > > > >
> > > > > Absolutely.  Perhaps for the U.S. and parts of Germany we are
> > > > > approaching full coverage of all places with 5,000 people.  But
> > > > > for India I doubt if we have covered all cities with 50,000.
> > > > > Nothing stops the limit from being set at 500 too.  But a lower
> > > > > limit could be questioned a lot more easily than a higher one.
> > > > > Then again, some places with 50,000 people are less notable than
> > > > > some very small places.  But if you can point to the fact that a
> > > > > place has 50,000 inhabitants (or was the birth places for a
> > > > > president), then it is a lot easier to defend its notability.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > On one side we have western places. For instance, Wikipedia has an article
> > > > about my town, political division and local member of parliament. My town
> > > > and surrounding ones (all of which have wiki articles) have a population of
> > > > 1,500 or so. Rambot has written articles about towns 1/10th of the size of
> > > > mine.
> > > >
> > > > However, whilst lists of Australian, German or US (and more) topics are
> > > > mostly blue links, there are lists populated almost entirely by red links,
> > > > such as [[List of Sudanese singers]]. Unfortunately, very few or no reliable
> > > > sources will probably be found to warrant articles about these singers (at
> > > > least not on the internet), and the only way to get coverage of a large
> > > > portion of them would be through original research (which we can't do
> > > > obviously), or to find print sources. So does anyone on this mailing list
> > > > happen to have access to archives for a Sudanese newspaper? It would be nice
> > > > if we could get more things like [[WP:AWNB]] for smaller countries, so we
> > > > can find people more local* who may very well be able to walk to a library
> > > > to find sources and add articles. That could work wonders for coverage :-)
> > > >
> > > > *And I may be a bit too ambitious in assuming we have editors from just
> > > > about every country
> > > >
> > > > Michael Billington
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikipedia-l mailing list
> > > > Wikipedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Written with passion,
> > > J.L.W.S. The Special One
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
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> >
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>
>
> --
> Written with passion,
> J.L.W.S. The Special One
>
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