[Wikipedia-l] Re: NPOV

[Giuseppe DAngelo]

Message: 11
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 20:29:05 +0100
From: Gerard Meijssen 
Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] The role of a wikipedia for a language like
Hopi
To: wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
Message-ID: <4231F181.60408 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Delirium wrote:

> Ulf Lunde wrote:
>
>> I also wanted to say that I agree that gerard Meijssen's point is very
>> important: The wikipedias are indeed culture-bearers for their
>> respective populations, and not just for humanity as a whole!
>
> I disagree that this should be the case, and to the extent that it is, 
> feel it should be corrected. Languages are not culture, although they 
> have connections with it.
>
Languages are not culture ?? Encyclopedias most certainly are !! Please 
consider what words are used in a culture. The English used reflects the 
culture the person speaking or writing comes from. The idea that you can 
divorse culture from language is odd. When comparing articles on the 
same topic the diffferences are sometimes huge.

> If we wanted languages to be identified with culture, then we should 
> split some up, and have a "United States" wikipedia as a 
> culture-bearer for the U.S., a "French Canadian" Wikipedia as a 
> culture-bearer for French-Canadians, and so on. But we don't, and to 
> the extent possible keep these together. In essence, the only reason 
> we have separate Wikipedias at all is because of language 
> barriers---when languages are similar enough to keep together (as with 
> the French spoken in Canada vs. France vs. Algeria), we do so.
>
> Or do people actually seriously think we *should* have separate 
> Wikipedias catering to different cultures?

When we have an encyclopedia with articles that are acceptable to all 
people who speak a language, we aim to achieve a neutral point of view 
and provide more extended information. We want to maintain one wikipedia 
bridging the divide between the cultures that use a language. Given the 
virtually limitless amount of harddrive capacity we have articles on 
cricket and honkbal. We are happy to host any topic that is of intrest. 
What this discussion is about, is not about en: or fr: It is about Hopi. 
By having a Hopi or a Dutch or a Frisian wikipedia, you allow many 
topics to be narrated with a Hopi, Dutch or Frisian point of view. Not a 
non-neutral but with a Hopi, Dutch or Frisian point of view. This is 
good because certain things that are true from an English perspective 
are plain different and non-neutral from another culture point of view. 
To put it bluntly, the words mean different things, they have different 
conotations denying people a resource like that is like denying that 
languages differ and that languages reflect a culture.

The UN has a mother language day. This day is to celebrate the diversity 
of the cultures of the world. All languages have a need for good 
information, that is what wikimedia aims to provide. The argument that 
the Dutch can read and write English and do not their own wikipedia is 
great. It only reminds me of a recent tiff I was in, where I was accused 
of not being able to express myself in English... So please allow me to 
read and write in Nederlands and, I will not be asking for a wikipedia 
in Westfries. :) And I do apologize for my poor English (or was it 
apologise ...)

I would almost accept your point if you agree to only read French or 
Chinese in future. You will find how much it will divorce you from the 
culture that you live in.

Thanks,
GerardM



I agree with Gerard here.  I believe scn.wiki serves to explore certain topics from a Sicilian perspective.  Why?  Rely on the English wikipedia to be NPOV about matters relevant to Sicily?  Yeh, right!  Do that and you may be excused for thinking that Frederick II never set foot in Sicily and was entirely uninfluenced by his education and upbringing in Palermo (in fact he was educated in Rome according to en.wiki!! the discussion page even questions whether he could possibly have spoken 9 languages - but if they knew anything about medieval Sicily, they would not bother asking the question); that the Sicilian language pretty much stopped developing during the Saracen epoch (with Norman French, Catalan and Spanish, after many paragraphs, being mentioned briefly in one closing line as "influences");  that "Trinacria" may not have come to exist as the Greek name for the island because of the triangular shape of the island - surely this can't be so because it predates proper
 cartographic technology, i.e. if the English, Americans, or North Europeans didn't do it first - as if a bunch of southern Europeans could have managed it!

NPOV?  Please, spare me.

pippu d'angelo


				
---------------------------------
Nuovo Yahoo! Messenger E' molto più divertente: Audibles, Avatar, Webcam, Giochi, Rubrica
 Scaricalo ora!