[Wikipedia-l] Re: Moldovan Wikipedia Proposal

Wed Jun 22 13:18:27 UTC 2005

Mark Williamson a écrit:
> Hi Anthere,
> 
> Unfortunately, there isn't really a mo.wiki "community".
> 
> It's more like, a group of two or three core individuals working on
> the project, and another 2 or 3 "mo.wiki hagglers" -- people who keep
> complaining on talkpages that the Wikipedia should be deleted.
> 
> Incidentally, the "hagglers" also believe that "there is no such thing
> as a Moldovan language", and until recently they were all editing
> anonymously. None of them has any edits to content pages.
> 
> The current problem is, what rights should go to what users? If we let
> the "hagglers" vote, they will possibly nominate one of themselves,
> vote him in, and then sabotage the Wikipedia using  their newfound
> sysop privelages.

Well, I am not sure what "haggler" mean, but I guess this is not a 
gentle term :-)

I'd say only those with an account can vote. And a rule such as at least 
1 month and a certain number of real articles can make the trick.

However, I must confess, as one external to your conflict, this sounds 
like "all those agreeing with me are good editors, all others are hagglers".

> If we let the "core" vote only, then we run the risk of being "undemocratic".
> 
> Also, according to Ronline's proposal, I will remain a sysop
> "temporarily" to translate the interface, whether or not I am voted
> in.
> 
> Mark

This strikes me as reasonably democratic solution ;-)

Hmmm, a question... does the issue of whether to use Cyrillic as an 
influence in any way in the translation of the interface ?

Ant

> On 22/06/05, Anthere <anthere9 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>>Hiya.
>>
>>I have no personal opinion to give as of now regarding the current
>>conflict (I seem to remember I had to make a couple of comments
>>regarding this topic several months ago);
>>
>>However, you raise a side, but important point.
>>
>>You wrote
>>
>> > Danutz, a Romanian user, pointed out that it is unfair
>> > that Node is the only user which supports the Moldovan
>> > Wikipedia, when he does not even speak
>> > Moldovan/Romanian very well (it seems he has some
>> > Moldovan roots, though) and has placed himself as
>> > sysop undemocratically (without any community
>> > consensus - note, though, that at that time the
>> > Romanian visitors weren't yet aware of the mo.wiki).
>> > They therefore feel that an abuse of power is taking
>> > place, especially since Node is saying that the
>> > Romanian users shouldn't be able to have a say because
>> > they aren't Moldovan (in which case, the Romanian
>> > users claim that Node also doesn't have a right
>> > because he can "barely" speak Romanian/Moldovan).
>>
>>Unless I am proven wrong, it is very likely Node asked to be sysop on
>>this project when there were no editors (to do precisely what he
>>mentionned, interface, main page protection....).
>>
>>It is a habit amongst stewards to give sysophood very liberally on small
>>wikis, as editors who are unique, or only a couple... can't expect to be
>>elected "democratically". However, there is also a provision saying that
>>if necessary, someone apppointed sysop before there is a community, has
>>to be confirmed sysop later if the then build community does wish to
>>start elections.
>>
>>I guess we are in this kind of configuration.
>>
>>I consequently invite you to organise elections for sysophood and mo.
>>According to http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_permissions,
>>there is no current page for admins. Could you add one and invite
>>editors to candidate then vote ?
>>
>>Naturally, from the moment you start these elections, Node will be
>>considered a temporary sysop and will need to be supported by current
>>community in order to keep a status which was given to him before there
>>was one.
>>
>>I hope he will stay one as I do not think he did anything wrong... but
>>that way, things will be clearer :-)
>>
>>What do you think ?
>>
>>Ant
>>
>>Wikipedia Romania (Ronline) a écrit:
>>
>>>Hi to all,
>>>
>>>This is Ronline from the Romanian Wikipedia. We have
>>>currently (in the past week especially) had quite a
>>>lot of controversy about the Moldovan Wikipedia at
>>>http://mo.wikipedia.org.
>>>
>>>The reason I'm raising the issue here is to gauge the
>>>response of the wider community towards my proposal
>>>and also what's happening over at mo:
>>>
>>>Mo.wikipedia.org was founded a while ago, but until
>>>about  this year, it basically had no content and
>>>simply contained a redirect link to the Romanian
>>>Wikipedia, since Moldovan is identical to Romanian,
>>>renamed for political reasons (I won't go into the
>>>whole story now, you can see
>>>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldovan_language).
>>>
>>>Anyway, so a few months ago, a user called Vertaler
>>>came and added some Cyrillic content to the Moldovan
>>>Wikipedia. Cyrillic is a script used by a minority of
>>>Moldovans. Node_ue (Mark Williamson) supported that
>>>and said that he wishes to convert mo.wikipedia.org
>>>into a Cyrillic-Moldovan Wikipedia, with all Latin
>>>content being placed at ro.wikipedia.org in order to
>>>avoid duplication.
>>>
>>>After negotation with Node, I have come forward with a
>>>proposal that he has agreed with, which seeks to
>>>establish mo.wikipedia.org as a biscriptal
>>>Latin/Cyrillic Wikipedia in interface, and a
>>>biscriptal portal, but with Cyrillic content hosted on
>>>mo.wikipedia in order to avoid duplication with
>>>ro.wiki.
>>>
>>>The entire proposal is at
>>>http://mo.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ronline/Propunere,
>>>in English and Romanian.
>>>
>>>Now, the reason I've come here is because some users
>>>from the Romanian Wikipedia do not agree with keeping
>>>a Moldovan Wikipedia for Cyrillic content, because
>>>they believe that a Moldovan language doesn't exist
>>>(most linguists agree with this) and that since
>>>Wikipedia is neutral, it shouldn't have a Wikipedia in
>>>a language renamed for political reasons like
>>>Moldovan. Also, since Cyrillic is no longer the
>>>official script in Moldova (it used to be during
>>>Communist times), there is no place for it as mo.wiki.
>>>Other users agree to Cyrillic content, but not under
>>>the "Moldovan language" name.
>>>
>>>The controversy, which can be viewed at
>>>http://mo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:&#1055;&#1072;&#1218;&#1080;&#1085;&#1072;
>>>&#1087;&#1088;&#1080;&#1085;&#1095;&#1080;&#1087;&#1072;&#1083;&#1101;,
>>>has been exacerbated by the fact that there has been
>>>mutual distrust between Node on one hand, and a series
>>>of Romanian users, on the other. Node has blamed the
>>>Romanian users for being "nationalist" and "radical"
>>>and "anti-Moldovan", this being the reason why they
>>>don't support a Moldovan Wikipedia. The Romanian users
>>>have labelled Node a "Stalinist" and claim that he is
>>>not listening to them even though they are in the
>>>majority.
>>>
>>>Danutz, a Romanian user, pointed out that it is unfair
>>>that Node is the only user which supports the Moldovan
>>>Wikipedia, when he does not even speak
>>>Moldovan/Romanian very well (it seems he has some
>>>Moldovan roots, though) and has placed himself as
>>>sysop undemocratically (without any community
>>>consensus - note, though, that at that time the
>>>Romanian visitors weren't yet aware of the mo.wiki).
>>>They therefore feel that an abuse of power is taking
>>>place, especially since Node is saying that the
>>>Romanian users shouldn't be able to have a say because
>>>they aren't Moldovan (in which case, the Romanian
>>>users claim that Node also doesn't have a right
>>>because he can "barely" speak Romanian/Moldovan).
>>>
>>>Now, personally, I have taken a very neutral stance
>>>and compelled both sides to argue more rationally and
>>>stop the criticism. I also am entirely committed to
>>>hearing both sides out and acting in a professional
>>>manner.
>>>
>>>We have made some headway recently, and I have struck
>>>an agreement with Node over my proposal, which he
>>>seems to support. Some of the Romanian users, however,
>>>still do not agree with all parts of the proposal,
>>>some of them asking for a separate subdomain for a
>>>Moldovan-Cyrillic wiki. What do people say to that? I
>>>would personally agree to that, meaning a mo.wiki
>>>which is simply a portal, and a mo-cyr.wikipedia.org
>>>which hosts only Cyrillic content.
>>>
>>>I have presented my case here in order to gauge public
>>>response. I have also opened a consultation period
>>>with the community to allow for any complaints to the
>>>proposal, at
>>>http://mo.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ronline/Propunere.
>>>I'd just like to hear some opinions of people which
>>>aren't involved in this case so we can get more
>>>neutral, unaffiliated viewpoints.
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>
>>>Ronline
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>____________________________________________________
>>>Yahoo! Sports
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>>>http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com
>>
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