[Wikipedia-l] NSM88, deletion of user page image, personal attacks

[Andre Engels]

I don't like "hear, hear" and "me too" comments, but I am doing it to
this mail of Rich Holton's. I find the messages in this thread highly
disturbing. However little I like neonazi's, I very much defend their
right to edit Wikipedia, as long as they keep to NPOV just like any
other contributor.

As I have said in a previous mail, what matters is not what POV an
editor is writing from, but the extent to which that POV interferes
with their willingness and capability to write NPOV on the Wikipedia.

Andre Engels


On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 03:58:09 -0800 (PST), Rich Holton
<rich_holton at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> --- NSK <nsk2 at wikinerds.org> wrote:
> 
> > On Thursday 17 February 2005 11:06, Jack Lutz wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > > I understand user NSM88 had at one time an image of himself dressed
> > in some
> > > kind of Nazi or neo-Nazi uniform displayed on his user page, and
> > that it
> > > was deleted. Two issues stemming from that: deletion justification,
> > and
> > > personal attacks by admins.
> >
> > The administrators were right to delete it. Neo-Nazis will not be
> > tolerated in
> > Wikipedia.
> >
> 
> Please note that, with rare exceptions, each contributor to this list
> is speaking for themselves, and not officially for Wikipedia or
> Wikimedia. This applies equally to NSK's comments above, and to my
> comments.
> 
> I take extreme exception to the statement that "Neo-Nazis will not be
> tolerated in Wikipedia." In my opinion that statement is in direct
> contradiction to the concept of NPOV.
> 
> _Everyone_ is welcome to contribute to Wikipedia unless and until they
> demonstrate that they will not participate in good faith, according to
> the established practices and policies of the community. There are
> established mechanisms for determining when someone is not
> participating in good faith, and for restricting their participation as
> a result.
> 
> "Everyone" includes Neo-Nazis, no matter how much we may abhor their
> beliefs.
> 
> I do not think that the photo should have been removed based solely on
> the presence of Nazi symbols, especially since it was on the user's
> page.
> 
> However, many people in the US (like me) have a different attitude
> about Nazi symbols that do many people in Europe. The United States did
> not so directly suffer from Hitler and the Nazi's as Europe did. I
> think it's almost impossible for someone like me to fully appreciate
> their views.
> 
> Let me make this plain: I hate Neo-Nazi beliefs. However, I urge that
> we Wikipedians treat Neo-Nazi's no differently than we treat other
> contributors whose beliefs differ from our own. Certainly remove POV
> from articles. Certainly hold them accountable to properly documented
> facts. Make sure that they are participating in good faith. But unless
> and until they prove themselves unable to participate in good faith, we
> should not take any action against them.
> 
> -Rich Holton
> en.Wikipedia:User:Rholton