[Wikipedia-l] Re: Toki Pona

Wed Sep 22 11:17:36 UTC 2004

Scríobh Mark Williamson:

> Well, I for one felt it was nessecary to replace all content with
> copyvio notices

Wow, slam-dunk for overstepping the mark there.  Since the whole "One
Chinese Wikipedia" thing, you've done nothing except stir the pot and try to
cause trouble.  How old are you Mark, twelve?  I realise this is not the
place for a flamefest, but I think that describing you as a "decent editor"
is being pretty generous.  All you've contributed to this list is a bunch of
half-researched junk about Sicilian and Gothic, which is either flat wrong
or which no supporting material can be found for, and you've done it all
with a very hostile attitude to a lot of people who have been very patient
with you.

I'm willing to accept that it's the impetuousness of youth causing this
trouble, but attempting to wipe out a whole Wikipedia without consulting
anyone first was really just going a bit too far.  I suggest you think
carefully in the future about what you say, what you do, and how it will be
perceived, and in the meantime, that you lay very, very, very low.

Regards,
- Craig Franklin

-------------------
Craig Franklin
PO Box 764
Ashgrove, Q, 4060
Australia
http://www.halo-17.net - Australia's Favourite Source of Indie Music, Art,
and Culture.

----- Original Message -----
From: <wikipedia-l-request at Wikimedia.org>
To: <wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 1:38 PM
Subject: [personal] Wikipedia-l Digest, Vol 14, Issue 47

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. RE: Request for a new Wikipedia (James R. Johnson)
>    2. Re: Request for a new Wikipedia (Mark Williamson)
>    3. Re: Starting a new wiki (Ray Saintonge)
>    4. RE: Request for a new Wikipedia (Alfio Puglisi)
>    5. Re: Request for a new Wikipedia (Mark Williamson)
>    6. Re: Request for a new Wikipedia (Anthere)
>    7. Re: Re: Request for a new Wikipedia (Mark Williamson)
>    8. RE: Re: Request for a new Wikipedia (James R. Johnson)
>    9. toki pona (Angela_)
>   10. Re: toki pona (Tim Starling)
>   11. Re: toki pona (Mark Williamson)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 15:58:04 -0400
> From: "James R. Johnson" <modean52 at comcast.net>
> Subject: RE: [Wikipedia-l] Request for a new Wikipedia
> To: <wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID: <20040921195810.3543C1AC0252 at mail.wikimedia.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I tried Chinese, but didn't get too far.  I stuck with Anglo-Saxon,
German,
> French, Latin, and English.  I'm best in German and Anglo-Saxon (speaking,
> writing), then French, then Latin.  English is my first language.  How
'bout
> you, node?
>
> James
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wikipedia-l-bounces at Wikimedia.org
> [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces at Wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Ray Saintonge
> Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 3:22 PM
> To: Mark Williamson; wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Request for a new Wikipedia
>
> Mark Williamson wrote:
>
> >Hi all,
> >
> >The ISO 639 committee has *just* (literally) approved a code for the
> >Sicilian language.
> >
> >Sicilian has over 6 million speakers, and there is good internet
> connectivity.
> >
> >I would like to request that scn: be created for Sicilian.
> >
> Your fluency in traditional Chinese, Gothic, and now Sicilian is a
> remarkable feat that few of us can duplicate.  In the absence of such
> abilities I would tend to suggest that we wait for a request to be made
> by those who would like to work in Sicilian.
>
> Ec
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 13:19:25 -0700
> From: Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Request for a new Wikipedia
> To: wikipedia-l at wikimedia.org
> Message-ID: <849f98ed04092113194d086ac at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> Question, when did I claim fluency in Gothic?
>
> --node
>
> On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 12:21:30 -0700, Ray Saintonge <saintonge at telus.net>
wrote:
> >
> >
> > Mark Williamson wrote:
> >
> > >Hi all,
> > >
> > >The ISO 639 committee has *just* (literally) approved a code for the
> > >Sicilian language.
> > >
> > >Sicilian has over 6 million speakers, and there is good internet
connectivity.
> > >
> > >I would like to request that scn: be created for Sicilian.
> > >
> > Your fluency in traditional Chinese, Gothic, and now Sicilian is a
> > remarkable feat that few of us can duplicate.  In the absence of such
> > abilities I would tend to suggest that we wait for a request to be made
> > by those who would like to work in Sicilian.
> >
> > Ec
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 13:25:14 -0700
> From: Ray Saintonge <saintonge at telus.net>
> Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Starting a new wiki
> To: wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> Message-ID: <41508E2A.1090604 at telus.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed
>
> Yann Forget wrote:
>
> >Hi,
> >
> >Le Tuesday 21 September 2004 19:08, Ray Saintonge a écrit :
> >
> >
> >>translated.  Tagore died in 1941, so his works are essentially all in
> >>the public domain based on the life plus 60 law that prevails for India.
> >>
> >>
> >I am not sure. Does this apply worldwide?
> >If yes, I have some texts available for Wikisource.
> >
> >
> For the relevant Indian law see
> http://www.naukri.com/lls/copyright/section5.htm#22
>
> For the relationship to US law see [[Itar-Tass Russian News Agency v.
> Russian Kurier, Inc.]] in Wikipedia.
>
> Ec
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 23:44:07 +0200 (MEST)
> From: Alfio Puglisi <puglisi at arcetri.astro.it>
> Subject: RE: [Wikipedia-l] Request for a new Wikipedia
> To: wikipedia-l at wikimedia.org
> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0409212340240.24544 at zeus>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
>
> AFAIK, sicilian today has been blended a lot with Italian. The average
> sicilian hears Italian on television and writes in italian, not sicilian.
> I'm sure most of them have no idea of how Sicilian is written (I have no
> idea myself, but that doesn't count). It's not taught in schools, it's
> mostly oral tradition.
>
> Alfio
>
> On Tue, 21 Sep 2004, James R. Johnson wrote:
>
> >Cool.  How is Sicilian related to Italian and French?
> >
> >James
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: wikipedia-l-bounces at Wikimedia.org
> >[mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces at Wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Mark Williamson
> >Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 1:21 PM
> >To: wikipedia-l at wikimedia.org
> >Subject: [Wikipedia-l] Request for a new Wikipedia
> >
> >Hi all,
> >
> >The ISO 639 committee has *just* (literally) approved a code for the
> >Sicilian language.
> >
> >Sicilian has over 6 million speakers, and there is good internet
> >connectivity.
> >
> >I would like to request that scn: be created for Sicilian.
> >
> >best,
> >node
> >_______________________________________________
> >Wikipedia-l mailing list
> >Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> >http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Wikipedia-l mailing list
> >Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> >http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 15:14:07 -0700
> From: Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Request for a new Wikipedia
> To: wikipedia-l at wikimedia.org
> Message-ID: <849f98ed040921151470b01c3c at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> There are plenty of Sicilian-language websites online, in fact there
> are more than there are for Sardinian which is much much much more
> different from standard Italian.
>
> As far as how its written, see http://www.linguasiciliana.org/lsu.htm
> (lingua siciliana unificata).
>
> There are more books available in Sicilian than there are in Sardinian
> as well, including a few translations of popular literature. Also,
> Sicilian is, along with Italian, a co-official language of the
> Sicilian autonomous region of Italy.
>
> --node
>
> On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 23:44:07 +0200 (MEST), Alfio Puglisi
> <puglisi at arcetri.astro.it> wrote:
> >
> > AFAIK, sicilian today has been blended a lot with Italian. The average
> > sicilian hears Italian on television and writes in italian, not
sicilian.
> > I'm sure most of them have no idea of how Sicilian is written (I have no
> > idea myself, but that doesn't count). It's not taught in schools, it's
> > mostly oral tradition.
> >
> > Alfio
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 21 Sep 2004, James R. Johnson wrote:
> >
> > >Cool.  How is Sicilian related to Italian and French?
> > >
> > >James
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: wikipedia-l-bounces at Wikimedia.org
> > >[mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces at Wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Mark Williamson
> > >Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 1:21 PM
> > >To: wikipedia-l at wikimedia.org
> > >Subject: [Wikipedia-l] Request for a new Wikipedia
> > >
> > >Hi all,
> > >
> > >The ISO 639 committee has *just* (literally) approved a code for the
> > >Sicilian language.
> > >
> > >Sicilian has over 6 million speakers, and there is good internet
> > >connectivity.
> > >
> > >I would like to request that scn: be created for Sicilian.
> > >
> > >best,
> > >node
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >Wikipedia-l mailing list
> > >Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> > >http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
> > >
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >Wikipedia-l mailing list
> > >Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> > >http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikipedia-l mailing list
> > Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 00:30:16 +0200
> From: Anthere <anthere9 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Request for a new Wikipedia
> To: wikipedia-l at wikipedia.org
> Message-ID: <4150AB78.5060303 at yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Do you have perhaps 5 editors able to write and read sicilian AND
> interested in starting that wikipedia ?
>
> ant
>
>
> Mark Williamson a écrit:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > The ISO 639 committee has *just* (literally) approved a code for the
> > Sicilian language.
> >
> > Sicilian has over 6 million speakers, and there is good internet
connectivity.
> >
> > I would like to request that scn: be created for Sicilian.
> >
> > best,
> > node
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:22:31 -0700
> From: Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Request for a new Wikipedia
> To: wikipedia-l at wikimedia.org
> Message-ID: <849f98ed0409211622527475a8 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I could probably get some together, but why is that nessecary? Most of
> the Wikipedias we have started with one or two users. The Cornish Wiki
> is growing at a very surprising pace, and it only has two editors.
>
> --node
>
> On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 00:30:16 +0200, Anthere <anthere9 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Do you have perhaps 5 editors able to write and read sicilian AND
> > interested in starting that wikipedia ?
> >
> > ant
> >
> > Mark Williamson a écrit:
> >
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > The ISO 639 committee has *just* (literally) approved a code for the
> > > Sicilian language.
> > >
> > > Sicilian has over 6 million speakers, and there is good internet
connectivity.
> > >
> > > I would like to request that scn: be created for Sicilian.
> > >
> > > best,
> > > node
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikipedia-l mailing list
> > Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 22:09:54 -0400
> From: "James R. Johnson" <modean52 at comcast.net>
> Subject: RE: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Request for a new Wikipedia
> To: "'Mark Williamson'" <node.ue at gmail.com>,
> <wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID: <20040922021039.247641AC028C at mail.wikimedia.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Ditto Anglo-Saxon.  There are at least 5-10 core people I can get to write
> articles, with perhaps 50 or so others for minor contributions, not
counting
> traffic to the various OE websites that could be redirected to the
> Anglo-Saxon wiki, plus the people who e-mail me personally asking about
OE.
> Est-ce que vous parlez en Francais, Mark?  Je vais aller à France ce mars.
>
> James
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wikipedia-l-bounces at Wikimedia.org
> [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces at Wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Mark Williamson
> Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 7:23 PM
> To: wikipedia-l at wikimedia.org
> Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Request for a new Wikipedia
>
> I could probably get some together, but why is that nessecary? Most of
> the Wikipedias we have started with one or two users. The Cornish Wiki
> is growing at a very surprising pace, and it only has two editors.
>
> --node
>
> On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 00:30:16 +0200, Anthere <anthere9 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Do you have perhaps 5 editors able to write and read sicilian AND
> > interested in starting that wikipedia ?
> >
> > ant
> >
> > Mark Williamson a écrit:
> >
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > The ISO 639 committee has *just* (literally) approved a code for the
> > > Sicilian language.
> > >
> > > Sicilian has over 6 million speakers, and there is good internet
> connectivity.
> > >
> > > I would like to request that scn: be created for Sicilian.
> > >
> > > best,
> > > node
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikipedia-l mailing list
> > Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 03:45:36 +0100
> From: Angela_ <beesley at gmail.com>
> Subject: [Wikipedia-l] toki pona
> To: Wikipedia Mailing List <wikipedia-l at wikimedia.org>, sonja at kisa.ca
> Message-ID: <8b722b8004092119452220127f at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> I've just reverted over 200 edits on the toki pona Wikipedia. Someone
> apparently feels the language is copyrighted so decided to replace
> every page, including user pages and the main page, with a copyright
> violation notice, presumably with the use of a bot. I've reverted
> these, although unfortunately the "bot rollback" failed on later pages
> so recent changes is a mess. I haven't deleted anything, so if people
> want to see the pages, such as "copyviopedia" this person created they
> can still do so.
>
> As far as I am aware Sonja Kisa, the creator of the language, has
> released it under the GFDL, but I can't find any mailing list evidence
> to back this up.
>
> If this is not the case, the wiki should obviously be removed but
> vandalizing hundreds of pages is not the way to go about this. I
> suggest we wait to hear from Sonja on the status of the copyright and
> remove it she can not confirm it is GFDL.
>
> Angela.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 13:05:18 +1000
> From: Tim Starling <ts4294967296 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: toki pona
> To: wikipedia-l at wikipedia.org
> Message-ID: <ciqq5g$gca$1 at sea.gmane.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> Angela_ wrote:
> > I've just reverted over 200 edits on the toki pona Wikipedia. Someone
> > apparently feels the language is copyrighted so decided to replace
> > every page, including user pages and the main page, with a copyright
> > violation notice, presumably with the use of a bot. I've reverted
> > these, although unfortunately the "bot rollback" failed on later pages
> > so recent changes is a mess. I haven't deleted anything, so if people
> > want to see the pages, such as "copyviopedia" this person created they
> > can still do so.
>
> Edits were performed anonymously with the IP address 24.251.242.236 .
> The corresponding hostname is ip24-251-242-236.ph.ph.cox.net.
>
> On the English Wikipedia:
>
> mysql> select distinct rc_user_text from recentchanges where
> rc_ip='24.251.242.236';
> +--------------+
> | rc_user_text |
> +--------------+
> | Node ue      |
> +--------------+
>
> I suggest a temporary ban from all projects effective immediately.
>
> -- Tim Starling
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 20:38:29 -0700
> From: Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] toki pona
> To: Angela_ <beesley at gmail.com>, wikipedia-l at wikimedia.org
> Message-ID: <849f98ed040921203830a61096 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> Well, I for one felt it was nessecary to replace all content with
> copyvio notices because it states explicitly on the Toki Pona homepage
> that Toki Pona is copyrighted. In a cursory Google search, just to
> make sure I wasn't missing some sort of release by Sonja of the
> information into the public domain or under some sort of terms, I
> found no page under which Sonja released the language in any sort of
> way.
>
> While it is debatable whether or not a language is copyrightable (see
> Lojban), I feared for Wikipedias interests and so took down those
> pages immediately pending further investigation.
>
> Some have raised the point that a significant number of the pages were
> written by Sonja herself, and thus were explicitly released under the
> terms of the gfdl when she clicked "submit".
>
> I have two things to say to that:
>
> 1. At the time I did not realise this.
>
> 2. Since I suspected that they were copyvios, rather than checking the
> history of each of 200-odd pages I simply replaced them all.
>
> Since it appears they were indeed *not* copyvio, the appropriate
> course of action is simply to revert them to their previous versions
> after it has been shown that they aren't copyvio, and then keep going
> from where you were.
>
> Whether or not I am blocked from all projects is obviously not my
> choice, but I will submit that I have contributed much to the
> community. For example, just in the past couple of days I have made
> logos for over a dozen Wikipedias, and posted them on Meta. I am also
> (at least I think) partially responsible for the founding of fo: and
> lb: (I informed people of the possibility of creating them).
>
> Anyhow the decision doesn't rest in my hands. I will not object if it
> is decided that I should be blocked or banned or whatever, I will only
> defend myself against specific arguments.
>
> --node
>
> On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 03:45:36 +0100, Angela_ <beesley at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I've just reverted over 200 edits on the toki pona Wikipedia. Someone
> > apparently feels the language is copyrighted so decided to replace
> > every page, including user pages and the main page, with a copyright
> > violation notice, presumably with the use of a bot. I've reverted
> > these, although unfortunately the "bot rollback" failed on later pages
> > so recent changes is a mess. I haven't deleted anything, so if people
> > want to see the pages, such as "copyviopedia" this person created they
> > can still do so.
> >
> > As far as I am aware Sonja Kisa, the creator of the language, has
> > released it under the GFDL, but I can't find any mailing list evidence
> > to back this up.
> >
> > If this is not the case, the wiki should obviously be removed but
> > vandalizing hundreds of pages is not the way to go about this. I
> > suggest we wait to hear from Sonja on the status of the copyright and
> > remove it she can not confirm it is GFDL.
> >
> > Angela.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikipedia-l mailing list
> > Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>
>
> End of Wikipedia-l Digest, Vol 14, Issue 47
> *******************************************
>
>