[Wikipedia-l] Re: Serbo-Croatian Wikipedia

[Henry H. Tan-Tenn]

Elisabeth Bauer ti 2004/11/24 EP 02:22 sia-kong:
> Evan Prodromou wrote:
> 
>> I think the big thing to understand is that each wiki takes time,
>> effort, and money to maintain. Each wiki is a security risk, both
>> technically and legally; an active community can offset this risk as
>> well or better than fancy technological security measures.
> 
> I fully agree with Evan here. But I want to add some other points which 
> are largely neglected so far. Maintaining a wiki is not only about 
> getting some people to work there, we also need to ensure that local 
> communities get to know and share the fundamental values and principles 
> of wikipedia: neutrality, openess, freedom of content.

Indeed, that is the struggle on every WP, isn't it.  i.e. Striving for 
NPOV, fairness, content-centered open discussions, etc. is on-going on 
numerous pages.  But a bit of context here would be useful:  what Evan 
is talking about is the undesirability of leaving inactive wikis 
unattended (what he calls security risk).  What Elizabeth is talking 
about pertains to active WPs that may be deemed NPOV in a systemic way 
because of demographics.  (For comparison, see en:Wikipedia:WikiProject 
Countering systemic bias.)  I will controversially (and tentatively) say 
that what is communally judged POV or NPOV is likely subject to the 
values and experiences its members bring to the table.  This is a 
situation likely present in all WPs -- even older, more mature ones -- 
albeit in different degrees and manifesting in different ways.  That 
does not mean I don't see a problem with it, just that problem is 
perhaps widespread.

> There's a lot of knowledge about wikipedia customs and processes needed 
> to get a new wiki started. So far we let people find out on their own - 
> or not.

I think the knowledge is acquired communally _as_ a wiki grows and 
matures.  Knowing the principles of, say, the statement on NPOV still 
requires lots of practice, and even then opinions differ.

> Yesterday a friend translated a sentence on the main page of the tatar 
> wikipedia for me: "Tatarlar Böyek! Yäşäsen Törki Dönya!" - "Die Tataren 
> sind groß! Es lebe die türkische Welt!" (in german, since I don't know 
> how to translate this in english). But the equivalent would be the 
> french putting "Vive la France" on their main page. All three sysops 
> there edited the page later, noone removed the sentence.

I recall the Welsh WP (which I rather like) has a large Welsh flag with 
its red dragon prominently and (I imagine) proudly displayed on the main 
page.  This could be interpreted in NPOV and POV ways.  I would not 
hazard a guess, but I personally am fine with it.  This is related to my 
claim that we bring values and experiences to the table which influence 
our judgement.

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