[Wikipedia-l] legal threat in eo wikipedia! / legxa minaco en la eo-Vikipedio

Sat Mar 15 23:18:01 UTC 2003

No doubt Jim will be with you shortly.. but it doesnt seem like a good idea
to give out anyones personal info to anyone in any circumstances - If its a
legal matter, being investigated by legitimate officials, then there is a
process for that...

As far as libel- slander, and credibility... since the party has made a good
faith effort to change the info themselves, and that the user in question
continues to assert the point - it becomes necessary to ascertian the truth
of the point. Consider the Wikis potential ripples in a place like China,
where, even if the point is true, the government there might not want it be
known, - as in the case with Yahoo.

The material in point, seems to be with regard to the case of attribution of
a quote, criticising Giorgio SILFER... is there a source for this?  Can it
be verified? If so, then what right does anyone have to deny it? If its
inaccurate, then this constitues at best an error, and an apology would be
in order - if its deliberate misinformation, then the user should be banned,
or issue the said apology.

This is all just my opinion - from the POV of detachment from the potential
liability of being sued by some jackass. But WikiP cant logically be held
liable for issues of slander... or at least fear of a suit should not be
a'feard. ( [Wikipedia Talk:Slander and Libel] ) -Stevertigo

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(Crossposted: wikipedia-l, intlwiki-l, wikieo-l)

I received the follow message in my user's page today:

Estimata Sinjoro, Bonvolu komuniki la adresojn al kiuj
sendi leteron per ordinara po&#349;to, por vi kaj por
s-ro Brion Vibber, kiuj estas indikitaj kiel responsaj
pri la redaktado de &#265;i tiu enciklopedio. Bonvolu
komuniki la adreson, sed ankau la kompletan nomon, de
la persono kiu uzas la pse&#365;donimon "Kri&#265;jo".
Manke de respondo, mi sendigos per advokato
registritan leteron je via atento &#265;e la Centra
Oficejo de UEA en Roterdamo. La afable petitajn
informojn vi povas skribi &#265;i-sube.
Anta&#365;dankante pro la respondo.

Rough translation:  Dear sir, please communicate to me
the adress(es) of who to send a letter by mail for you
and for Mr. Brion Vibber, who are indicated as the
ones responsible for the editing of this encyclopedia.
 Please communicate the address, but also the complete
name, of the person who uses the name, "Kricxjo".  If
you don't respond, I will send through my lawyer a
registered letter to your attention at the central
office of UEA in Rotterdam.  You can answer the nicely
requested information below.  Thanks in advance for
your response.

Now, I should clarify the situation.  Kricxjo has
added the following critique of Giorgio SILFER in his
biography: "La politika agado de Giorgio Silfer ne
estas universale aprezita. Dum la 90-aj jaroj, la
verkisto Jorge CAMACHO mokis lin en la satira verko La
Majstro kaj Martinelli (1993) kaj kritikis liajn
ideojn en La liturgio de la foiro. Jouko LINDSTEDT,
alia surskribinto de la Manifesto de Ra&#365;mo,
akuzas Silfer-on de proponi per la vorto
"Ra&#365;miso" ideologion kiun li ne rekonas."
(Translation: "The political action of Giorgio Silfer
is not universally appreciated.  In the 90's, the
author Jorge Camacho mocked him in his satirical work,
The Master and Martinelli and critiqued his ideas in
The liturgy of the oven.  Jouko Lindstedt, another
writer of the Raum manifest, acuses Silfer of
proposing an ideology to the word "Raumism" which he
does not recognize.")

In response to this critique, an anonymous user put
the following in the discussion page: "Ni estas
studentoj de la kurso pri interlingvistiko kaj
esperantologio en la universitato de Torino. La
plenigo de kelkaj rubrikoj en Vikipedio estas parto de
nia studa taskaro. Ni faras tion lau kriterioj de
UTET-enciklopedio, kiuj supozeble estas sciencaj. Ni
ne havas tempon por diskuti pri ili, kaj ne deziras
polemiki kun aliaj. Se iu deziras bazi sin sur
onidiroj kaj emociaj reagoj, tio estas unuavice
problemo por tiu, kaj duavice por la fidindeco de la
Vikipedio. (el Torino, 13.III.2003)"

Translation: "We are students of the course of
interlinguistics and esperantology in the university
of Torino.  Working on the Wikipedia is part of our
homework.  We write them according to the criteria of
the UTET encyclopedia, which supposably is scientific.
 We do not have time to discuss them, and do not wish
to start a controversy.  If someone wishes to base
themselves on hearsay and emotional reactions, that is
first a problem for them, and then a problem for the
credibility of the Wikipedia."

Later the source was given for the critique and added
back into the article (the anonymous person had
deleted it).  The anonymous author again makes legal
threats claiming that Kricxjo is slandering his
reputation.  Brion then comments that threats from an
anonymous author are not very convincing and then I
received the above the threat on my personal page.

A few days ago, Kricxjo put the following comment on
the discussion page of the anonymous user:

"Mi proponas ke la uzanto 130.192.202.25 estu
forbarita. Li jam &#349;an&#285;is artikolojn por
forigi ajnan mencion de kritika flanko, kaj lastatempe
la&#365;te kriis kontra&#365; ajnaj kritikaj mencioj
en artikoloj Perla MARTINELLI kaj Giorgio SILFER,
kvankam ne&#365;trala biografio prezentas &#265;iujn
flankojn. Hodia&#365;, li e&#265; minacis jurprocezon
pro mia eta mencio de verko de Camacho La Majstro kaj
Martinelli, kvankam publikaj reagoj kontra&#365; iu
homo - same kiel publikaj subtenoj - estas grava parto
de biografio. Homoj kiuj intence kaj da&#365;re
minacas la kunlaborecon kaj liberecon de Vikipedio
devus esti forbaritaj."

Rough translation: "I propose that the user
130.192.202.25 be banned.  He has already changed
articles which delete any kind of mention of a
critical side in the articles on Perla Martinelli and
Giorgio Silfer, although a neutral biography should
present every POV.  Today, he even threated legal
process because of a small mention of the work by
Camacho, The Master and Martinelli, although public
reactions against a person - the same as public
support - are an important part of a biography.
People who purposefully and continually threaten the
cooperation and freedom of the Wikipedia must be
banned."

So, I need legal advice.  Jimbo, should I give
Kricxjo's name and address to Silfer?  Should I
temporarily remove the critique from the biography
until the legal problem is solved?  Please reply
ASAP... and CC: your reply to my personal address as
well, msochuck at yahoo.com.

Thank you,
Chuck Smith

=====
Learn Esperanto! - http://www.lernu.net/
Enciklopedio: http://eo.wikipedia.org/

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