[Wikipedia-l] Re: Press release : Logo putsch on the FrenchWikipedia !

[Adam Bishop]

I'm Canadian, and I try to work on the French wikipedia sometimes.  
Malhereusement, le français n'est pas ma langue maternelle.  However, I'm 
not sure it would help to have French-Canadians there, especially as the 
French-Canadians on the English wikipedia can barely work together (with 
themselves and with English-Canadians like me) on Quebec-related articles.

Adam Bishop


>From: "Constans, Camille (C.C.)" <cconsta4 at ford.com>
>Reply-To: wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
>To: "'anthere8 at yahoo.com'" 
><anthere8 at yahoo.com>,"'wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org'" 
><wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org>
>Subject: RE: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Press release : Logo putsch on the 
>FrenchWikipedia !
>Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:18:44 -0500
>
> >
> >Just as Tarquin would put it (and put it on fr actually), the french
> >wikipedia is very much French, not french speaking. Some
> >outside call it
> >Wikipedia Française :-( Because it is essentially poved by
> >France culture.
>
>Most of people one fr are french.... It will be nice if we could have some 
>africans or canadian to work with us.
>
> >Some articles on french cities, do not mention the city is in France,
> >because it is obvious :-)
>
>We dont think about other country :) But I make the same mistake for cities 
>in other country, when I speak about Orlando, I think a Orlando in 
>Florida...
>
> >Date articles, current events, are focused on french events
>
>We're french :)
>
> >When two words are used, one canadian, one french, some think the
> >*correct* one is the french (see previous discussion about gay
> >and gai,
> >and what is "correct" anyway)
>
>Difficult question. Why dont using the two words ? with a redirect
>
> >And this is not even mentionning that the proper way to write
> >is the one
> >suggested by the French Academy or the French Typographic
> >Code. Perhaps
> >Canada has a chance as well here, but I doubt a decree in
> >Algeria about
> >how to use french would be given much consideration :-)
>
>Difficult question too, i would like to know it works between American 
>People and british people ?
>
> >We seek to have images legal issues respect the "french" legislation.
>
>Because most of wikipedians are french, and they hope to be able to speak 
>or distribute the french wikipédia "in law".
>
> >The association will be set in France.
>
>Others could be set in Belgium, Canada, and I hope in Senegal....
>
> >A hosting server would be in France likely.
>
>It's juste an idea, because the french association could be work on it. Why 
>an another  server in an another contry ?
>
> >The idea of local association is good. But here, it will just add a
> >layer of cultural weight.
>
>The goal of this association is not to take the power on the french 
>wikipedia, this association could just help the wikipedia with funds, 
>publicity, forums, etc...
>
> >France culture is already *so* heavy, that a Christmas logo, which in
> >itself *could be* npov if other celebrations were respected as
> >well, is
> >*smelling* culture dominency again.
>
>Yeah, it's true. But it could had a bit of fun :)
>
> >It is just another step. Dominancy over content, over style, logo :-)))
>
>Do you think we're really pov ? We're working to prevent that, I hope...
>
> >Of course, many editors are french, so that is not so surprising. But
> >that does not mean we should not try to compensate our bias.
>
>Agree
>
> >Not a long time ago, on ml, there was a discussion over how to reach
> >npov on international wikipedias, given that the variety of
> >participants
> >is more limited than on en. This is worrying me deeply as well. We are
> >not currently trying to work toward npov I fear, we are still
> >trying to
> >understand the concept. Of course, some will disagree with
> >that opinion
> >of mine :-)
>
>Juste your opinion Anthere, I think most of people try to work npov. See 
>all the battles on religious articles.
>
> >18 months ago, I thought that if I could attract more french speaking
> >people on the french wikipedia, from the en: stock, they could help us
> >to fight France cultural dominancy.
> >
> >I also thought that if some french users could also work on
> >the english
> >wikipedia, that would help, if they could see how people were doing in
> >another place. That is what I did, even if I am not really part of the
> >english wikipedia.
> >
> >That is why I hoped so much for mixing all of us.
> >That, if it was hard for some of us to understand npov, international
> >mixing could help.
> >That, if it was hard for some of us, to accept the one different,
> >international mixing could help.
> >That, if it was hard for us to solve conflict resolution, because we
> >have no expert on this, international cooperation, mediation, where
> >international would be welcome in english commitee, even at observers,
> >to learn, it would help. Or if international commitee could be
> >set, that
> >would help.
> >
> >But yeah, right, no. There is here, and there. No confusion.
> >One belongs
> >here, or belongs there.
> >I do not know what to think of what is going on. Except that each time
> >there is a discussion on something on fr, it can't stay polite.
>
>Sometime it stay polite :) We have some latin blood ;-)
>
> >So when Tarquin says he wants to talk about it on the international
> >list, one answer is "that he should keep his ridiculous threats for
> >himself". This is how disagreement and willingness to talk with other
> >members of the same project is interpretated : a threat.
>
>Tarquin present this as a war declaration : I wont work on fr wikipédia 
>until some things changes ! And He said : I will say to international ml 
>that fr is npov and prefer to work on style than on content. As if we were 
>small children who didn't respect the rules! Personnaly I dislike this !
>
> >As a matter of interest, I would be curious to know how those
> >internationals, that are split between wikipedias assume that. I find
> >extremely disconcerting to see two parts of a "common" project
> >being so
> >different. It is a bit like that psychological disorder :-)
>
>Do you think we're really different ? I'm sure there's some probleme as 
>ours on en, de, nl, oc,   oups not oc, there's no yet enough people :)
>
> >I hope this issue be solved Tarquin, because fr needs you badly.
>
>As I said, leaving is not a solution. Tarquin choose to leave, it's his 
>choice. Athymik does it some weeks ago.
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