[Wikipedia-l] What Larry (and everybody else) said

[Julie Hofmann Kemp]

Just to put my oar in the water:

1) Why Nupedia isn't as "successful" as Wikipedia:

I can only tell you what I think (since I'm in arrears on a Nupedia
article).  First, I think Nupedia is in some ways the ideal -- partially
because my understanding is that expertise can be demonstrated in ways
other than credentials.  Second, because there's peer review that means
something -- review by other people who might know something about the
subject.  Finally, there's a copyediting standard.  Why isn't it more
successful?  For me, it's two things -- the process is a bit unwieldy
(I'd actually have to draft a complete article to submit it, which takes
time -- probably a lot less than I spend here, but wikipedia nickels and
dimes your time to death) and second.actually, it's really just what I
said -- the process is a bit unwieldy -- it's not set up for people who
have a few minutes here and there to do a quick edit or addition.  Oh --
and frankly, online resources of any kind aren't really accepted yet by
moat of academia (at least not the people in charge of hiring and
granting tenure).

2) Re: Attracting experts:  The estimable Mr. Gilbert said, "if you
build it."  I agree, but add (a la Mr F. Bauder)  they will also leave
when they get tired of the aggro.  I think expert retention is more the
problem -- there has been attrition, though, since I've been here.  Let
me first say that yes, ego is involved.  Credentials do usually
represent a huge amount of work and emotional investment, as does
teaching a subject.  So too with interested amateurs who have their own
areas of expertise -- meaning they've done a lot of work and really
learned their subjects.   It doesn't mean we can't be wrong (Lord knows,
I have my moments!), but it generally means we are, well, experts.  That
means that we do get irritated when we get into edit wars with people
who know less and often express it even less well.  

3)  Retaining good people in general.  I think it's part of getting
bigger and having no staff -- it's like working in a successful start-up
-- the initial employees are really tight and get so used to working
together that they cooperate and play to each other's strengths without
thinking.  As the start-up grows, it starts to get a hierarchy, New
people don't have the luxury of knowing who among their fellows is the
go-to person for what, and there is sometimes friction.  The difference
here for me is, I don't think newbies have any excuse for not learning a
bit about the old hands -- and I think they also have some
responsibility to help make themselves known.   I try to encourage
people to tell us something about themselves when I say hi, but it might
be nice to have a template for user pages with a space for "expertise"
and "interests."

3 continued )  It might also be  good to have links to Wikipedia
etiquette on the user page -- or as part of the login process.  DW, the
person with shades of French Helganess, is contributing huge amounts,
but refuses to respond to queries on whether his/her pictures and
sources are PD, or to acknowledge my requests to look at how we've been
formatting historical stuff.   This is after accusing me of pushing
everybody else around (not that I don't make cases for how I think
things should  be, but I generally have good reasons, and when I
haven't, I hope I've given in gracefully.   

Still -- the two things that have driven me off on "breaks" in the past
(and most likely the future) are the lack of respect for my hard-earned
knowledge and a general lack of communal cooperation from a very few
(but for some reason, interested in history) people who make me thing
"My time is too valuable for this -- I spend way more time fighting to
make other people's articles *passable* than writing new stuff."

Anyway, that's my take.  It would be really nice to have a few people
with some official *moderator* position, but I can see how that could be
a problem unless there are volunteers.  In the meantime, I just thank
goodness for the Vickis and Aprils and Mavs and Stephen Gilberts (etc --
I'm not leaving people out on purpose.) there are lots of good reasons
to hang around!

Jules
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