The v-word (was: [Wikipedia-l] User pages)

[Jonathan Walther]

On Mon, Nov 25, 2002 at 04:51:58PM +0100, Erik Moeller wrote:
>*sigh* Clutch is a vandal, there's no doubt about it. Even when Lir was
>still unbanned, he kept changing her page, linking to articles about "good taste"
>to help her develop "the good taste she lacks", kept reverting her attempts
>to restore the page and threatened to do so until Lir would "call him uncle"
>(and not in the uncle Ed sense, I presume). Now that Lir is banned, he is,

This is possibly a cultural difference.  Your address and name indicates
you are German.  In English, when you make someone "holler uncle!" it
means "do you give up now?"  It is specifically used when someone is
being an unbearable annoyance, so you sit on them, and you don't let
them up until they indicate they recognize they have been an annoyance
and are prepared to change, by hollering "uncle!"  It's a fine old
tradition, rarely used by people who are older than school age.  In Lirs
case I saw no other way to impress on him what he was doing to other
Wikipedians.

And remember, Lir IS a "he", not a "she".  He attends Iowa State
University.  He should know better.

>This is vandalism of a user page -- it's identical to me editing Ed's page
>and inserting some snide remarks about the Unification Church and "Moonies",
>making it look like Ed wrote them. That's why everyone kept reverting Clutch's
>changes, but he is patient enough to re-insert his version again and again.
>
>Now we have basically justified Clutch's vandalism by protecting the
>*vandalized* version of the page which links to the "how to develop good taste" etc.
>which Clutch deliberately inserted. 

I asked you to please look at the edits more carefully.  Fact is, Lir
decided to add the link to the "Good Taste" article all by himself.  He
"incorporated" it into his own page after one of my edits.  I ask you
again: look carefully.  I have added nothing to Lirs page that he did
not add himself.  I just cleaned it up, made it look more dignified and
less careless, and removed the few things Lir had put in specifically to
antagonize people.

I am happy with the compromise page that was achieved this morning, and
hope Jimbo lets it stand.

>I've dealt with trolls a number of times, and I know one when I see one.
>Don't let Clutch pull your leg. He's an experienced troll. SoftSecurity won't
>work here.

I am experienced in dealing with trolls.  My troll days are long past;
that's why I understand what Lir is going through, and can empathize
with him.  Unfortunately, this makes it worse for him.  I know what it
means to role-play at the cost of the community one role-plays in.  Lir
doesn't yet appreciate the cost, he just sees it as a game.

Jonathan

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