[Wikipedia-l] Feature Proposal: Certification

[Larry Sanger]

>> Larry Sanger wrote:

> The main reason for this is simply that that isn't what the many good
> people who signed up for the Nupedia project signed up for; they'd be
> furious if I tried to hijack their project that way, even if it's a
> project that isn't currently going anywhere.

Jimmy Wales <jwales at bomis.com> wrote:

>> I'm considering a mass email to ask them what they want to do.  I
think it's perfectly reasonable for us to offer to setup software for
them to start reviewing and approving articles from Wikipedia.  I
can't imagine why they'd be furious about it.

Hi Jimbo,

First: I could be persuaded to support your position.  But:

You remember what happened when we first ran the idea by Nupedians, of
creating just a fun wiki side-project.  After a week or two it seemed the
vast majority of Nupedia's editors and reviewers were against continuing
an association with the wiki.  It became Wikipedia.  Then, we started the
Nupedia Chalkboard, which was going to be a more exclusive wiki that would
be able to import Wikipedia articles (remember?)--a Wikipedia halfway
house.  Getting the advisory board to agree to it was like pulling teeth.
Then only about three or four people showed up.  After I set it up, Magnus
is the only one who did any serious work on it (thanks, Magnus).
Finally, more recently--about a year ago, when we were debating the future
of Nupedia--there was some talk of making Nupedia simply a vetting
mechanism for Wikipedia.  I remember that several Nupedia editors and
reviewers came out very strongly against having any association with
Wikipedia, and at least one (or was it two?) of them threatened to quit
when it was suggested that Wikipedia and Nupedia become more closely
associated.  All these people are still there, waiting, by the way, and I
suspect their opinions haven't changed--though of course I could be wrong
about that.  So that's why I say *that* they'd be furious.

As to *why* they'd be furious, I can think of a few reasons.  While they
*do* want to work on a free encyclopedia, they *don't* want to do
professional-level work with people who are not at a professional level.
Moreover, they don't, individually (though there are some notable
exceptions!), want to be associated with a *wiki*, which smacks of
amateurishness (and there are other anti-wiki reasons as well).  That's OK
for us amateurs, but not for most people, including most people who want
to work on a free encyclopedia, who have paid their dues getting the
highest degree in their field and then worked for years at a professional
level.  Finally, they can actually view the work of Wikipedia, and while
I'm sure some of them are impressed with the amount of work we've done,
I'm also sure that most of the Nupedia editors and reviewers think that
most of the material currently in Wikipedia is nowhere near to a level
such that they'd like to be associated with it.

I'm not now saying that Nupedians are *right* to feel this way.  I do know
Nupedians at least as well as anyone, though, and I'm pretty sure that a
large portion of the outspoken Nupedian population *does* in fact feel
this way.

With respect to my recent "subset" proposal, I have to admit that Nupedia
would be a perfect venue to pursue this, **IF** some significant portion
of the existing editorial and review staff got into the act.  I just don't
know if they would.  The above-reported experience indicates they might
very well not.  But it seems likely to me that there would be a massive
changing of the guard, and perhaps a mass exodus.  Definitely, *some* of
the most productive, most helpful Nupedia members would leave--which is to
say that they would never again work on *either* Nupedia *or* Wikipedia.
(Unless, I suppose, Nupedia turned out to be a screaming success, which of
course it might.  Then they might come back.)

The other option, of course, is to start a new website, beg Nupedians to
get involved, and save Nupedia for something else.

Whatever becomes a professional review mechanism for Wikipedia, let me
tell ya how I think it should work: the reviewer should look at a
candidate article, perhaps make a few last minute changes on Wikipedia,
and then press a button, and it's posted as certified.  End of story.
After our experience with Nupedia, I think it should be *that* simple.
On this conception, *Wikipedia* is the editing mechanism; the review
mechanism consists of qualified people *just* pressing *one* button.
(I'm just offering this as an idea--I'm not saying that it's *definitely*
what we should do.  But I do strongly feel it should be that simple, or
nearly that simple.  Once we determine the venue, we can discuss the
details fo the mechanism.)

Larry
-- 
"We have now sunk to a depth at which the re-statement of the obvious is
the first duty of intelligent men." --George Orwell