[Wikinews-l] Wikinewsie

gopher65 gopher65 at hotmail.com
Sun Oct 4 13:36:48 UTC 2009 

I'd suggest 3 wikinewsie blogs, for the reasons specified by Tristan and 
Brian (rants look unprofessional, but unused personal blogs do too, if 
they're associated with Wikinews). Blog 1: technical stuff related to 
Wikinews. Blog 2: strict editorial content. Rules are much the same as they 
are with an on-wiki article, but the NPoV requirement is dropped (and 
probably a few of the other reqs as well). Blog 3: Combined personal space 
for accredited reports, for any crap that doesn't fit in either of the other 
2 blogs (including the occasional inappropriate rant that we *know* will 
happen whether we want it to or not).

I've read blogs before that attempt to combine those 3 separate aspects of 
blogging into a single blog, and it does indeed look unprofessional (see the 
badastronomy blog for an example. You have Science posts (good), editorial 
posts (the author can do as he pleases I guess), and rants (bad) all in one 
section). I think we should attempt to avoid this problem by separating out 
our ranting, editorials, and technical content. That way people can *choose* 
want parts they read and what they don't.

gopher65
--------------------------------------------------
From: <brian.mcneil at wikinewsie.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 6:13 AM
To: "Wikinews mailing list" <wikinews-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Wikinews-l] Wikinewsie

> #blog on front page
>
> I know who past accredited reporters were, and who some of those who
> still are, are.
>
> Sooner or later someone will "rant" in an inappropriate and extremely
> poorly thought out way. Sure, it is themselves they're opening up to
> comments that rip their arguments apart for being poorly thought out and
> not based in reality. But it will reflect poorly on us all, and look
> highly unprofessional. That's why I would rather have more than one
> blog, define a clear scope for any blogs we do have, not have them
> in-your-face up-front, and if anyone does feel the need to "rant" they
> do it on their own personal blog.
>
> #list of accredited users on wikinewsie
>
> The email domain is @wikinewsie.org. If you contact someone, and they
> decide to see who/what a "Wikinewsie" is, they'll look at that domain's
> website. If they're redirected to en.wn, they could attach all the
> "unreliable", "anyone can change it", &c connotations from seeing a
> wiki. Presenting the data (list of reporters & bios) in such a way that
> it looks 'cast-in-stone', and unalterable is more credible.
>
> I am also on ComCom, and have access to the OTRS queue for press queries
> sent to the WMF. You do tend to carry out these sort of checks, you do
> want to "know thine enemy" before responding. Just like when someone
> emails from a gmail address, and says they're from the NYT, you make an
> effort to verify this is true. This can even be emailing back and asking
> for contact from a @nyt address.
>
> #google for email
>
> I'm doing my best to keep my email out of the UK government's
> super-database. I have zero assurances or trust Google won't give up
> that information if told "He's a UK peon, we say you're one of his ISPs,
> give all the data". If you think it won't happen, look at how they
> cooperate with China. At least USians have the current attempt to get
> telcos bitchslapped for warantless wiretapping, not so for many others.
>
> I have used gmail accounts as a convenient and semi-anonymous free email
> address. If I ever intend to say something I would prefer difficult to
> pin on me, I always retrieve and send email with POP/SMTP *through Tor*.
> Let's see a show of hands as to how many people on this list, accredited
> or not, could actually do that.
>
> I am disinclined to use Google for wikinewsie stuff on that basis,
> they're not really the techie "do-no-evil" company anymore, they're an
> advertising and marketing company. They will always collect data to make
> saleable statistics - I prefer to "poison the well" and skew the
> statistics over helpfully providing such data.
>
> As Jon says, we've had this Google Apps argument before. I've 20 years
> experience in IT with a big chunk of that in cellular telecoms, I used
> to get my hands on 1/4" mag tapes with a full month's call details for
> all a service provider's subscribers; who called, for how long, which
> tower(s) handled the call, all the numbers dialled that didn't answer.
> There has never been any thought that this data belongs to the
> subscriber. That attitude has never changed, just a variety of
> concessions to stop customers running away screaming, or compliance with
> whatever government legislation is enacted to give the appearance of
> privacy.
>
> So I'm fairly sure my position is well-informed. Google will quickly and
> quietly fold in the face of concerns from a sovereign government. We're
> trying to be journalists, using Google is like Bob Woodward faxing all
> his reporter's notes to a document storage company that would hand them
> over the second Tricky Dicky asked.
>
>
> Brian.
>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: [Wikinews-l] Wikinewsie
>> From: Tristan Thomas <tris at waterhay.co.uk>
>> Date: Sun, October 04, 2009 9:22 am
>> To: Wikinews mailing list <wikinews-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
>>
>>
>> I like Jon's proposal.  I want to keep list of accredited users on 
>> Wikinews
>> as there's no reason it needs to be anywhere else.  We can start having
>> quick biogs of reporters on there if that's what people want.  Agree with
>> Gmail-Godaddy is forwarded to it anyway for me, so not too bothered.  TBH 
>> I
>> can't see it is worth it to get SUL-it's only a few things & you can have
>> the same details.
>> Thoughts on Jon's idea?
>>
>> 2009/10/4 Jon Davis <wiki at konsoletek.com>
>>
>> > I was thinkin about this problem and here's what I came up with.
>> >
>> > - Make Wikinewsie.org (main page), the blog.
>> > - Allow trusted users to have an account on the blog to basically post 
>> > what
>> > they want.  We always tell people "We don't do editorials, thats what 
>> > blogs
>> > are for", well there you go.  We can have our Offsite, non-official 
>> > blog,
>> > where we can be POV.  Well at least some people can do that stuff. 
>> > Some
>> > people like me can stick to posting technical news.
>> > - Stick to maintaining the accredited user list on en.Wikinews
>> > - GoDaddy email/Calendar get replaced by Gmail Apps for your Domain.  I
>> > know their free version supports up to 25 users, we can probably email 
>> > them
>> > and get more because we're kinda sorta non-profit.
>> > - Keep the Wikinewsie wiki an embargoed wiki, we don't need a public
>> > namespace on that.
>> > - The answer to the "SUL-like" question is LDAP.  I know you can easily 
>> > tie
>> > Mediawiki to LDAP and from my quick google'ing, wordpress too.  That 
>> > being
>> > said, is it worth it? I dunno.  Then you have to maintain the LDAP 
>> > service
>> > too, and that doesn't even mention the mail issue (you'd have to have 
>> > your
>> > own app for that, no hosted deal).  Oh, and I forgot the issue of
>> > permissions.
>> >
>> > I'd be willing to volunteer for some the technical stuff, after all 
>> > servers
>> > are kinda my thing.
>> >
>> > -SGN
>> >
>> > On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 05:46, <brian.mcneil at wikinewsie.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >> I want to see the blog resurrected on Wikinewsie - and perhaps others
>> >> added there too. You can pretty much forget us getting a WMF-provided
>> >> blog of any particular sort until we prove such will clearly fit the
>> >> remit laid out to justify 501(c) status.
>> >>
>> >> The Editors' Blog did not do too well for a variety of reasons. The
>> >> scope was intended to be on the details of the news reporting process,
>> >> yes with posts being single author and having a clear byline there is
>> >> nothing wrong with opinion that would not meet NPOV. There is a 
>> >> problem
>> >> with ranting anger that isn't cogently justified.
>> >>
>> >> A more technical blog, or one with a focus on recent meta-news might
>> >> work. There certainly isn't much chance of us being able to make
>> >> submissions to the official WMF tech blog. In this case, WordPress is
>> >> more appropriate than wiki technology because there is little
>> >> collaboration on the published item, and a need for a widely-known
>> >> simple comment system.
>> >>
>> >> I set up Wikinewsie.org because, despite asking again and again, 
>> >> nobody
>> >> would agree to give us @wikinews.org or even @en.wikinews.org email
>> >> addresses. The rest is just because it'd be stupid not to have a web
>> >> page matching the domain in the email addresses.
>> >>
>> >> At Wikimania in Alexandria, there were nods of agreement from Sue, 
>> >> Jay,
>> >> and Michael when I said I would like the WMF to take over the domain 
>> >> and
>> >> provide the hosting. Since then nothing, but it is clear from current
>> >> discussions that Wikinews is not a remotely important project when
>> >> prioritising the issues the WMF has to deal with. There is an open
>> >> invitation for stuff on the strategy wiki, and I would quite like to 
>> >> put
>> >> that up there. However, we have to be able to say what the one-off and
>> >> continuing costs are.
>> >>
>> >> Realistically, we have to get the Wikinewsie site to a state where we
>> >> could hand it over without requiring substantial up-front costs, or 
>> >> high
>> >> ongoing ones. Those costs will fall on the WMF techies. We need to use
>> >> open source applications that are believed to have been well tested, 
>> >> if
>> >> not actually had their code audited. Where there is custom code, it
>> >> should be as short as possible and simple enough to allow a speedy
>> >> review or audit.
>> >>
>> >> So, the current real pain in the ass with Wikinewsie is maintaining 
>> >> the
>> >> list of accredited users. It looks like the closed wiki on there with
>> >> the Public: namespace is the best option for that. Then the number of
>> >> people who can maintain the data is much bigger, and the task is less
>> >> technical.
>> >>
>> >> If we change the wiki to the Vector skin and tweak it to look
>> >> WMF-related, but noticeably enough different, that would be ideal. 
>> >> Then
>> >> you need a Wordpress theme that matches this. What other glue do we 
>> >> need
>> >> to hold the whole thing together? What open source tools would we
>> >> replace Godaddy's email and calendar tools with? A last point is, can 
>> >> we
>> >> integrate Wordpress, wiki, email, and calendar login a-la SUL? Can we 
>> >> do
>> >> so with fine-grained enough control to give accredited reporters and
>> >> admins access to the wiki, but not those who are only admins email? Do
>> >> we have some sort of Wikinewsie super-bureaucrats who can say, yes,
>> >> Bawolff gets permissions to go almost anywhere and change technical
>> >> details, or kick off bug-fix updates. But not post to blog X because 
>> >> he
>> >> isn't accredited.
>> >>
>> >> Then, is there any specific feature we need from these tools that they
>> >> don't provide? Can we persuade someone to develop that? I can see a
>> >> calendar for working on news reporting being very useful if anyone can
>> >> propose an upcoming event be added, those proposals being vetted, then
>> >> appearing on a public calendar. That could be far more useful than the
>> >> current on-wiki mechanism to propose a story.
>> >>
>> >> Are there enough people interested in seeing this happen to work on it
>> >> on-wiki and do some of the technical work? If so, I'll create a page,
>> >> lay out what I think we should have, and invite others to do the same
>> >> and comment on my ideas.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Brian.
>> >>
>> >> > -------- Original Message --------
>> >> > Subject: Re: [Wikinews-l] Around enWikinews - September '09
>> >> > From: Tristan Thomas <tris at waterhay.co.uk>
>> >> > Date: Sat, October 03, 2009 11:22 am
>> >> > To: Wikinews mailing list <wikinews-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > This is a good idea, but I was thinking it would be much better if 
>> >> > we
>> >> could
>> >> > have a blog that all accredited users could post to.  I know we used 
>> >> > to
>> >> have
>> >> > one that I saw linked from Wikinewsie, but it would be much better 
>> >> > if it
>> >> was
>> >> > on Wikinews itself, similar to the Wikimedia and WIkimedia UK one. 
>> >> > This
>> >> > could incorporate technical, visual or news updates from anyone who
>> >> wanted
>> >> > to do one.
>> >> > Thoughts?
>> >> >
>> >> > 2009/10/3 <brian.mcneil at wikinewsie.org>
>> >> >
>> >> > > In IRC, shen Shaka mentioned doing a newsletter type update I 
>> >> > > thought
>> >> it
>> >> > > would be a good idea to incorporate this into {{Howdy}} - give it 
>> >> > > an
>> >> > > extra tab for "News" and embed another page or template with stuff
>> >> like
>> >> > > the below bulleted list.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Adding the extra tab is not a problem, but {{Howdy}} is already
>> >> > > displaying badly in Firefox on Ubuntu. When I looked at it to see
>> >> about
>> >> > > adding an extra tab it is displayed such that the tabs along the 
>> >> > > top
>> >> are
>> >> > > wider than the box containing the currently displayed message. I 
>> >> > > can't
>> >> > > see an obvious way within the {{Howdy}} template to, say, increase 
>> >> > > the
>> >> > > template width to 90% of page width.
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Brian.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > -------- Original Message --------
>> >> > > > Subject: Re: [Wikinews-l] Around enWikinews - September '09
>> >> > > > From: bawolff <bawolff+wn at gmail.com <bawolff%2Bwn at gmail.com> <
>> >> bawolff%2Bwn at gmail.com <bawolff%252Bwn at gmail.com>>>
>> >> > > > Date: Fri, October 02, 2009 11:26 pm
>> >> > > > To: Wikinews mailing list <wikinews-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > In the interest of fairness, only one of thoose gadgets are 
>> >> > > > mine.
>> >> The
>> >> > > > other one is the original version stolen from the french
>> >> wikinewsies.
>> >> > > > Cheers.
>> >> > > > --
>> >> > > > - Brian
>> >> > > > Caution: The mass of this product contains the energy equivalent 
>> >> > > > of
>> >> 85
>> >> > > > million tons of TNT per net ounce of weight.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 6:07 PM, Jon Davis <wiki at konsoletek.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > > > > I've been told at one point in time, we had a regularly 
>> >> > > > > scheduled
>> >> > > newsletter
>> >> > > > > of the important goings on at Wikinews.  I can't find it in 
>> >> > > > > the
>> >> list
>> >> > > > > archives, but no matter.  I figured it was about time to
>> >> > > start/resurrect
>> >> > > > > it.  After all, we do important things around here and if you
>> >> aren't on
>> >> > > the
>> >> > > > > Wiki 24/7, you might miss something.  So here are the 
>> >> > > > > important
>> >> > > highlights
>> >> > > > > from last month:
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > > September 12th we had a banner day with 20 published articles 
>> >> > > > > in
>> >> one
>> >> > > day.
>> >> > > > > [[Category:September 12, 2009]] - http://enwn.net/A029
>> >> > > > > The RSS feed has been truncated to a more reasonable number -
>> >> > > > > http://feeds.feedburner.com/WikinewsLatestNews
>> >> > > > > We started a page to help Wikipedians better integrated with
>> >> Wikinews -
>> >> > > > > [[Wikinews:For Wikipedians]] - http://enwn.net/197b
>> >> > > > > [[Wikinews:Make Lead]] has been integrated into Easy Peer 
>> >> > > > > Review
>> >> by
>> >> > > Bawolff
>> >> > > > > - http://enwn.net/b05f
>> >> > > > > Bawolff also gave us not one but two different gadgets that
>> >> integrate
>> >> > > to
>> >> > > > > Wiktionary [[WN:WiktLookup]] - http://enwn.net/F52b
>> >> > > > > As of September 16th, we're not being carried on Google News, 
>> >> > > > > due
>> >> to a
>> >> > > > > change in MediaWiki.  Bug #20818 - http://enwn.net/246c
>> >> > > > > Some article statistics were made 
>> >> > > > > [[User:ShakataGaNai/Statistics
>> >> > > Project]] -
>> >> > > > > http://enwn.net/5967
>> >> > > > > The [[Main Page]] is getting an overhaul, with the new design 
>> >> > > > > to
>> >> show
>> >> > > up in
>> >> > > > > the next 24-48 hours - http://enwn.net/h
>> >> > > > > Policy proposed & passed to "Expire" Accredited Reports after 
>> >> > > > > 2
>> >> years.
>> >> > > -
>> >> > > > > http://enwn.net/6972
>> >> > > > > All the Water Coolers are now being archived (by month)
>> >> automatically.
>> >> > > > > New Administrators: 1, New Editors: 5
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > > Something important get forgotten? Want to help participate in
>> >> next
>> >> > > months
>> >> > > > > newsletter?  Stop by and leave a note on the respective months
>> >> entry:
>> >> > > > > [[User:ShakataGaNai/Around_enWikinews]] - http://enwn.net/D132
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > > --
>> >> > > > > Jon
>> >> > > > > [[User:ShakataGaNai]]
>> >> > > > > http://snowulf.com/ - Blog
>> >> > > > > http://snowulf.imagekind.com/ - Pictures
>> >> > > > > This has been a test of the emergency sig system.
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > > _______________________________________________
>> >> > > > > Wikinews-l mailing list
>> >> > > > > Wikinews-l at lists.wikimedia.org
>> >> > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > _______________________________________________
>> >> > > > Wikinews-l mailing list
>> >> > > > Wikinews-l at lists.wikimedia.org
>> >> > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > _______________________________________________
>> >> > > Wikinews-l mailing list
>> >> > > Wikinews-l at lists.wikimedia.org
>> >> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
>> >> > ><hr>_______________________________________________
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>> >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Wikinews-l mailing list
>> >> Wikinews-l at lists.wikimedia.org
>> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Jon
>> > [[User:ShakataGaNai]]
>> > http://snowulf.com/ - Blog
>> > http://snowulf.imagekind.com/ - Pictures
>> > This has been a test of the emergency sig system.
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Wikinews-l mailing list
>> > Wikinews-l at lists.wikimedia.org
>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
>> >
>> ><hr>_______________________________________________
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>
>
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