[Wikinews-l] Wikipedia's 'In the news'
Joe Anderson
computerjoe at gmail.com
Sat May 30 21:39:41 UTC 2009
On 2009-05-30 18:43:40 +0100, Ilya Haykinson <haykinson at gmail.com> said:
>
>
> The CC-BY-SA license was certainly available -- it's one of the core CC
> licenses, and has been since the start.
>
> The main reason Wikipedia had changes is, I believe, that the GFDL is simply
> a bad license for a wiki: the GFDL requires individual authors to be listed,
> and has other restrictions that make content reuse a bit cumbersome.
> Secondarily, there was the incompatibility with various other copyleft
> sources that are using the CC-BY-SA type licenses.
>
> Now, Wikinews is not using a copyleft license: CC-BY is _less_ restrictive
> than CC-BY-SA, and was chosen to be so on purpose. Our license allows much
> easier reuse of our content by commercial and non-commercial sources, with
> or without changes, as long as it's attributed back to us. The CC-BY-SA
> license, however, requires that if any changes are made in downstream reuse
> of content, the changed content is made available under a similar license.
> This, by definition, is more restrictive than just a plain attribution
> requirement. And this is the reason why Wikipedia content can't be copied to
> Wikinews: we are not able to offer the guarantee that downstream reuse of
> Wikinews content will follow CC-BY-SA.
>
> You can see the original discussion / voting at
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikinews/License
>
> -ilya
>
> On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 8:35 AM, Brian McNeil
> <brian.mcneil at wikinewsie.org>wrote:
>
>> Commons is the most compelling project to be compatible with. If you
>> actually look into the details of CC-BY-SA it is the license Wikinews would
>> probably have chosen were it available at the time. CC-BY-SA makes
>> Wikipedia
>> content vastly more useful to a lot of places and clears up significant
>> potential fair use issues quoting content on non-CC-BY-SA sites.
>>
>> Remember, Wikipedia ended up GFDL as a historical accident. They've worked
>> from that - including strongarming 'The Bearded One' - into writing a
>> get-out-of-GFDL clause. CC-BY-SA is *currently* the best choice for the WMF
>> mission. I don't think it was available when Wikinews went from PD to
>> CC-BY.
>>
>>
>> Brian.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: wikinews-l-bounces at lists.wikimedia.org
>> [mailto:wikinews-l-bounces at lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Jason
>> Safoutin
>> Sent: 30 May 2009 16:26
>> To: Wikinews mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [Wikinews-l] Wikipedia's 'In the news'
>>
>> Why though? Then what purpose does it serve to have changed WP to
>> CC-BY-SA if it still prevents copying from WP to WN or the likes? In
>> that sense, it really makes no logical sense. I thought the goal was to
>> make the WP license more compatible with other project licenses? If so
>> then changing it to CC-BY-SA isn't doing that at all (aside from commons).
>>
>> --
>> Jason Safoutin
>> Wikinews accredited reporter and administrator
>> jason.safoutin at wikinewsie.org
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul Williams wrote:
>>> 2009/5/30 Jason Safoutin <jason.safoutin at wikinewsie.org
>>> <mailto:jason.safoutin at wikinewsie.org>>
>>>
>>> Why could we not copy from WP? SA is just the basic same as regular
>> CC
>>> BY. If copying from WP will still not be allowed, then why did they
>> go
>>> through the trouble to even change the license if its still not
>>> compatible with other projects?
>>>
>>>
>>> CC-BY is not the same as CC-BY-SA - we (Wikinews) must publish our
>>> content under CC-BY-SA if we wish to copy from WP.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Paul Williams
>>> paul at skenmy.com <mailto:paul at skenmy.com>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikinews-l mailing list
>>> Wikinews-l at lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jason Safoutin
>> Wikinews accredited reporter and administrator
>> jason.safoutin at wikinewsie.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikinews-l mailing list
>> Wikinews-l at lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikinews-l mailing list
>> Wikinews-l at lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
>>
>
>
> The CC-BY-SA license was certainly available -- it's one of the core CC=
> licenses, and has been since the start.<br><br>The main reason Wikipedia h=
> ad changes is, I believe, that the GFDL is simply a bad license for a wiki:=
> the GFDL requires individual authors to be listed, and has other restricti=
> ons that make content reuse a bit cumbersome. Secondarily, there was the in=
> compatibility with various other copyleft sources that are using the CC-BY-=
> SA type licenses.<br>
> <br>Now, Wikinews is not using a copyleft license: CC-BY is _less_ restrict=
> ive than CC-BY-SA, and was chosen to be so on purpose. Our license allows m=
> uch easier reuse of our content by commercial and non-commercial sources, w=
> ith or without changes, as long as it's attributed back to us. The CC-B=
> Y-SA license, however, requires that if any changes are made in downstream =
> reuse of content, the changed content is made available under a similar lic=
> ense. This, by definition, is more restrictive than just a plain attributio=
> n requirement. And this is the reason why Wikipedia content can't be co=
> pied to Wikinews: we are not able to offer the guarantee that downstream re=
> use of Wikinews content will follow CC-BY-SA.<br>
> <br>You can see the original discussion / voting at <a href=3D"http://meta.=
> wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikinews/License">http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikinew=
> s/License</a><br><br>-ilya<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, May 30=
> , 2009 at 8:35 AM, Brian McNeil <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:bri=
> an.mcneil at wikinewsie.org">brian.mcneil at wikinewsie.org</a>></span> wrote:=
> <br>
> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, =
> 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Commons is the mo=
> st compelling project to be compatible with. If you<br>
> actually look into the details of CC-BY-SA it is the license Wikinews would=
> <br>
> probably have chosen were it available at the time. CC-BY-SA makes Wikipedi=
> a<br>
> content vastly more useful to a lot of places and clears up significant<br>
> potential fair use issues quoting content on non-CC-BY-SA sites.<br>
> <br>
> Remember, Wikipedia ended up GFDL as a historical accident. They've wor=
> ked<br>
> from that - including strongarming 'The Bearded One' - into writing=
> a<br>
> get-out-of-GFDL clause. CC-BY-SA is *currently* the best choice for the WMF=
> <br>
> mission. I don't think it was available when Wikinews went from PD to C=
> C-BY.<br>
> <font color=3D"#888888"><br>
> <br>
> Brian.<br>
> </font><div class=3D"im"><br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: <a href=3D"mailto:wikinews-l-bounces at lists.wikimedia.org">wikinews-l-=
> bounces at lists.wikimedia.org</a><br>
> </div><div class=3D"im">[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:wikinews-l-bounces at lists.=
> wikimedia.org">wikinews-l-bounces at lists.wikimedia.org</a>] On Behalf Of Jas=
> on Safoutin<br>
> Sent: 30 May 2009 16:26<br>
> To: Wikinews mailing list<br>
> Subject: Re: [Wikinews-l] Wikipedia's 'In the news'<br>
> <br>
> </div><div><div></div><div class=3D"h5">Why though? Then what purpose does =
> it serve to have changed WP to<br>
> CC-BY-SA if it still prevents =A0copying from WP to WN or the likes? In<br>
> that sense, it really makes no logical sense. I thought the goal was to<br>
> make the WP license more compatible with other project licenses? If so<br>
> then changing it to CC-BY-SA isn't doing that at all (aside from common=
> s).<br>
> <br>
> --<br>
> Jason Safoutin<br>
> Wikinews accredited reporter and administrator<br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:jason.safoutin at wikinewsie.org">jason.safoutin at wikinewsie.=
> org</a><br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Paul Williams wrote:<br>
> > 2009/5/30 Jason Safoutin <<a href=3D"mailto:jason.safoutin at wikinews=
> ie.org">jason.safoutin at wikinewsie.org</a><br>
> > <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jason.safoutin at wikinewsie.org">jason.safo=
> utin at wikinewsie.org</a>>><br>
> ><br>
> > =A0 =A0 Why could we not copy from WP? SA is just the basic same as re=
> gular CC<br>
> > =A0 =A0 BY. If copying from WP will still not be allowed, then why did=
> they go<br>
> > =A0 =A0 through the trouble to even change the license if its still no=
> t<br>
> > =A0 =A0 compatible with other projects?<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > CC-BY is not the same as CC-BY-SA - we (Wikinews) must publish our<br>
> > content under CC-BY-SA if we wish to copy from WP.<br>
> ><br>
> > Regards,<br>
> ><br>
> > Paul Williams<br>
> > <a href=3D"mailto:paul at skenmy.com">paul at skenmy.com</a> <mailto:<a h=
> ref=3D"mailto:paul at skenmy.com">paul at skenmy.com</a>><br>
> ><br>
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
> --<br>
> ><br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
> > Wikinews-l mailing list<br>
> > <a href=3D"mailto:Wikinews-l at lists.wikimedia.org">Wikinews-l at lists.wik=
> imedia.org</a><br>
> > <a href=3D"https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l" ta=
> rget=3D"_blank">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l</a>=
> <br>
> ><br>
> <br>
> <br>
> --<br>
> Jason Safoutin<br>
> Wikinews accredited reporter and administrator<br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:jason.safoutin at wikinewsie.org">jason.safoutin at wikinewsie.=
> org</a><br>
> <br>
> <br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Wikinews-l mailing list<br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:Wikinews-l at lists.wikimedia.org">Wikinews-l at lists.wikimedi=
> a.org</a><br>
> <a href=3D"https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l" target=
> =3D"_blank">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l</a><br>
> <br>
> <br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Wikinews-l mailing list<br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:Wikinews-l at lists.wikimedia.org">Wikinews-l at lists.wikimedi=
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> =3D"_blank">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l</a><br>
> </div></div></blockquote></div><br>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikinews-l mailing list
> Wikinews-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
Could we import certain pages from Wikipedia and state those pages
aren't CC-BY, but CC-BY-SA?
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