No subject

Fri Sep 2 16:33:14 UTC 2011

//Online Ambassadors/mentors are not handholders and error correctors. I
signed up to be an online ambassador. But stopped reading the IEP mails
that were sent to me after i realised, that the IEP program essentially
wanted to me to do the students' work. //

Sure. We can (OAs) guide the students & can help them in editing kindaa
things. But, expecting OAs should keep an eye on the particular student's
article & keep tracking them is not a good idea. And, doing it in this way
is a small English Wikipedia Admin kindaa thing.

Many OAs including me, are contributing & taking initiatives to develop
their language projects, the OA role gives them a burden really. Because I
felt it. ONLINE AMBASSADORING IS NOT REALLY ENGLISH WIKIPEDIA
ADMINISTRATING ROLE. Because, I indirectly directed to that role only. I
really DISLIKE that.

+ I am agree with the number of students. (50)

Thank you.
*$U=C2=AE=C2=A5=E2=88=A9*
http://goo.gl/RoMyo.com <http://FirefoxSurya.blogspot.com>
http://about.me/suryaceg

On 12 November 2011 19:39, Swaroop Rao <raul.swaroop at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 19:33, Bala Jeyaraman <sodabottle at gmail.com>wrote=
:
>
>> >>Many of us went through college recently know its not *Some*, its
>> *Most*. Anything called assignment and graded will be copy-pasted even b=
y
>> the brightest 5% of students in class who would have potential to do on
>> their own.
>>
>> +1.  with Srikanth This is the SINGLE MOST important thing to remember
>> for the future. Lets cut the political correctness and putting the blame
>> everywhere else than where it belongs - the students and faculty involve=
d
>>
>> In my four years of college, i copy pasted almost every single assignmen=
t
>> given to me. I did not know it was wrong and wouldnt have cared if someo=
ne
>> from outside pointed it to me. The attitude i saw from the IEP students =
is
>> exactly the same. Unless the students are penalised for plagiarism by be=
ing
>> failed in the course, they are not going to change the behaviour. And ho=
w
>> many of your professors in indian education were concerned that you were
>> copy pasting your assignment. (None of mine cared - i can say with
>> confidence that is the same case in 99% of the cases in India now)
>>
>> So no amount of increasing the number of campus ambassadors, their
>> training, etc would help unless there is a stick involved - How many tim=
es
>> did the campus ambassadors tried to tell students not to copy paste?. Ho=
w
>> many of the students heeded the warning. This issue was raised in Late
>> August. There were two whole months to hammer in the message and it didn=
t
>> work out. Why? there were no serious implications for the students
>> involved. There is a conversation in Srikanth's en wiki talk page, where=
 a
>> student tries to weasel out of copyvio by giving every excuse in the boo=
k -
>> he did not correct his behaviour, but instead tried everything to get th=
e
>> copyvio he added approved.
>>
>> Those who got blocked weaseled, whined and pleaded for an unblock but in
>> many of the cases reverted to the previous behaviour, when they thought
>> they could get away with it. They are socking and trying to remove clean=
up
>> comments from the IEP page !!!!. Without a no-nonsense approach, you wil=
l
>> only gets repeats of such behaviour.
>>
>> So here is what is to be done:
>>
>> 1) *Keep the number low* - The next round should have less than 50
>> students. No classwide / collegewide  blanket programs. Make this a
>> "interested students only" program.  We have clearly demonstrated there =
is
>> no manpower to handle anything more.  We have about exhausted the goodwi=
ll
>> of the en wiki community. If this repeats, you are looking at a wholesal=
e
>> blocks for the students and IP addresses.
>>
> That's true. The enwiki community is losing its patience really.
>
>
>>
>> 2) *Penalise those who copy paste*  -  either they should be failed by
>> their professors. If the professors dont care, drop the program and stop
>> going back to that institution. Wikipedia is a work in progress, we dont
>> need plagiarism by Indian students to shore it up. We are not that
>> desperate.
>>
> A bit harder to enforce, since academic plagiarism is practised en masse
> by many professors themselves (not generalizing, just saying that the
> problem goes way deeper than the students).
>
>
>>
>> 3) *The CA to student ratio has to be 5 to 1. *Anything more seems to
>> non-workable. Online Ambassadors/mentors are not handholders and error
>> correctors. I signed up to be an online ambassador. But stopped reading =
the
>> IEP mails that were sent to me after i realised, that the IEP program
>> essentially wanted to me to do the students' work.
>>
>> Go back to the drawing board. Dont start with 1000. not even a 100, star=
t
>> with a 50.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list
>> Wikimediaindia-l at lists.wikimedia.org
>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
>>
>> Swaroop Rao
>
>
>
> Steering Committee member, United States Education Program
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list
> Wikimediaindia-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
>
>

--0015174785cc24417a04b18b4fbf
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<font color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D"2"><font face=3D"arial,helvetica,sans=
-serif">From Bala&#39;s words...<br><br></font></font></font>//Online Ambas=
sadors/mentors are not handholders and error correctors. I=20
signed up to be an online ambassador. But stopped reading the IEP mails=20
that were sent to me after i realised, that the IEP program essentially=20
wanted to me to do the students&#39; work. //<br><br>Sure. We can (OAs) gui=
de the students &amp; can help them in editing kindaa things. But, expectin=
g OAs should keep an eye on the particular student&#39;s article &amp; keep=
 tracking them is not a good idea. And, doing it in this way is a small Eng=
lish Wikipedia Admin kindaa thing.<br>

Many OAs including me, are contributing &amp; taking initiatives to dev=
elop their language projects, the OA role gives them a burden really. Becau=
se I felt it. ONLINE AMBASSADORING IS NOT REALLY ENGLISH WIKIPEDIA ADMINIST=
RATING ROLE. Because, I indirectly directed to that role only. I really DIS=
LIKE that.

+ I am agree with the number of students. (50) Thank you. <fo=
nt color=3D"#000000">$U=C2=AE=C2=A5=
=E2=88=A9

</font><a style=3D"background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);color:rgb(51, 51, 25=
5)" href=3D"http://FirefoxSurya.blogspot.com" target=3D"_blank">http://goo.=
gl/RoMyo.com</a><br><a href=3D"http://about.me/suryaceg" target=3D"_blank">=
http://about.me/suryaceg</a><br>

<br>
<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 12 November 2011 19:39, Swaroop Rao <=
span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:raul.swaroop at gmail.com">raul.swaroop=
@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">

<br><br><br>
<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"im">On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 a=
t 19:33, Bala Jeyaraman <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sodabottle@=
gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">sodabottle at gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

<div>&gt;&gt;Many of us went through college recently know its not *Some*, =
its=20
*Most*. Anything called assignment and graded will be copy-pasted even=20
by the brightest 5% of students in class who would have potential to do=20
on their own. </div>+1.=C2=A0 with Srikanth This is the SINGLE MOST =
important thing to remember for the future. Lets cut the political correctn=
ess and putting the blame everywhere else than where it belongs - the stude=
nts and faculty involved

In my four years of college, i copy pasted almost every single assignme=
nt given to me. I did not know it was wrong and wouldnt have cared if someo=
ne from outside pointed it to me. The attitude i saw from the IEP students =
is exactly the same. Unless the students are penalised for plagiarism by be=
ing failed in the course, they are not going to change the behaviour. And h=
ow many of your professors in indian education were concerned that you were=
 copy pasting your assignment. (None of mine cared - i can say with confide=
nce that is the same case in 99% of the cases in India now)

So no amount of increasing the number of campus ambassadors, their trai=
ning, etc would help unless there is a stick involved - How many times did =
the campus ambassadors tried to tell students not to copy paste?. How many =
of the students heeded the warning. This issue was raised in Late August. T=
here were two whole months to hammer in the message and it didnt work out. =
Why? there were no serious implications for the students involved. There is=
 a conversation in Srikanth&#39;s en wiki talk page, where a student tries =
to weasel out of copyvio by giving every excuse in the book - he did not co=
rrect his behaviour, but instead tried everything to get the copyvio he add=
ed approved.

Those who got blocked weaseled, whined and pleaded for an unblock but i=
n many of the cases reverted to the previous behaviour, when they thought t=
hey could get away with it. They are socking and trying to remove cleanup c=
omments from the IEP page !!!!. Without a no-nonsense approach, you will on=
ly gets repeats of such behaviour.

So here is what is to be done: 1) Keep the number low - T=
he next round should have less than 50 students. No classwide / collegewide=
=C2=A0 blanket programs. Make this a &quot;interested students only&quot; p=
rogram.=C2=A0 We have clearly demonstrated there is no manpower to handle a=
nything more.=C2=A0 We have about exhausted the goodwill of the en wiki com=
munity. If this repeats, you are looking at a wholesale blocks for the stud=
ents and IP addresses.

</blockquote></div><div>That&#39;s true. The enwiki community is losing its=
 patience really. =C2=A0</div><div class=3D"im"><blockquote class=3D"gma=
il_quote" style=3D"margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204, =
204, 204);padding-left:1ex">

2) Penalise those who copy paste=C2=A0 -=C2=A0 either they shoul=
d be failed by their professors. If the professors dont care, drop the prog=
ram and stop going back to that institution. Wikipedia is a work in progres=
s, we dont need plagiarism by Indian students to shore it up. We are not th=
at desperate.

</blockquote></div><div>A bit harder to enforce, since academic plagiarism =
is practised en masse by many professors themselves (not generalizing, just=
 saying that the problem goes way deeper than the students).<br>=C2=A0</div=
>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"im">

3) The CA to student ratio has to be 5 to 1. Anything more seems=
 to non-workable. Online Ambassadors/mentors are not handholders and error =
correctors. I signed up to be an online ambassador. But stopped reading the=
 IEP mails that were sent to me after i realised, that the IEP program esse=
ntially wanted to me to do the students&#39; work.

Go back to the drawing board. Dont start with 1000. not even a 100, sta=
rt with a 50. 
 </div><div class=3D"im">_______________________________________________=
 
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list 
<a href=3D"mailto:Wikimediaindia-l at lists.wikimedia.org" target=3D"_blank">W=
ikimediaindia-l at lists.wikimedia.org</a> 
To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit <a href=3D"=
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l" target=3D"_b=
lank">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l</a>

<br></div></blockquote></div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"=
>Swaroop Rao</font></span><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br><br><=
br>Steering Committee member, United States Education Program<br><br><br><b=
r>
</div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Wikimediaindia-l at lists.wikimedia.org">Wikimediaindia-l at li=
sts.wikimedia.org</a><br>
To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit <a href=3D"=
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l" target=3D"_b=
lank">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l</a><br>

<br></blockquote></div><br>

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