[Wikimediaau-l] The A E "Bert" Roberts photograph collection

Sun Nov 8 00:00:52 UTC 2009

The "copyfraud" argument is basically - in their view, the item is under PD
already so it is unethical for museums etc to licence it under any terms at
all as they don't "own" them.

However what that argument doesnt acknowledge is that the material may be PD
but the hosting and preservation of it is the key element (as we discussed
at GLAM) and the museum are providing us with freely available *digital
copies* which are, within the terms of the licence, freely available and
reusable worldwide.

2009/11/7 Craig Franklin <craig at halo-17.net>

> Hi Peter,
>
> Unfortunately the physical objects that the collection is based upon (the
> glass plate negatives) are in a locked cupboard somewhere in the QM
> warehouse, so the possibility of getting our hands on them and making our
> own copies are fairly remote.
>
> I've deliberately worded the info in the infobox to be slightly ambiguous -
> QM *claim* copyright on the digitisation (much the same as the NPG in the
> UK), but there has not been a legal case here in Australia to my knowledge
> or the knowledge of QM's copyright people to confirm whether the "sweat of
> the brow" doctrine would hold up in an Australian court.  We only say that
> QM "assert" copyright over the digitisation, not that we recognise that
> particular claim.  And because the digitisation part is then released under
> a free, acceptable licence, the whole shebang is fine to go on Commons.
>
> The images are tagged PD because they are unquestionably PD in the United
> States, which is what really matters in this case, but it's worth mentioning
> that there is a possible bit of CC-BY-SA-3.0 in there just so that nobody in
> Australia or the UK gets caught out.
>
> Cheers,
> Craig
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wikimediaau-l-bounces at lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:
> wikimediaau-l-bounces at lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Peter Ansell
> Sent: Sunday, 8 November 2009 9:00 AM
> To: Wikimedia-au
> Subject: Re: [Wikimediaau-l] The A E "Bert" Roberts photograph collection
>
> Mmmm... I don't quite understand the technicalities involved, but they
> are licensing it under CC-BY-SA so the outcome of the license is
> definitely not a deletion candidate.
>
> In my naive opinion I might think the word copyfraud relates to the
> use of a more limited license on a copy of a completely freely
> available image. It does seem arbitrary to put on the extra
> attribution/share alike clause just so the museum can be recognised as
> "the digitiser" given that the museum doesn't technically have any
> copyright/legal rights over the use of the original image unless they
> do that.
>
> If an external institution wants to digitise PD images with strings
> attached then people will wikilawyer about it. If the original image
> is PD, could someone else get access to the PD image and provide a PD
> digitised copy or would museums use their powers to restrict access to
> an image just to keep the attribution aspect?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Peter
>
> 2009/11/7 Craig Franklin <craig at halo-17.net>:
> > It might just be the fact that I’ve not yet had my morning coffee, but
> under
> > what grounds is he claiming it’s “copyfraud”?  This is the sort of thing
> I
> > was worried about, and pedantic wikilawyering like this is in my opinion
> one
> > of the main things that make external institutions nervous about working
> > with us.
> >
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Craig F.
> >
> >
> >
> > From: wikimediaau-l-bounces at lists.wikimedia.org
> > [mailto:wikimediaau-l-bounces at lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Matt
> inbgn
> > Sent: Sunday, 8 November 2009 8:26 AM
> > To: Wikimedia-au
> > Subject: Re: [Wikimediaau-l] The A E "Bert" Roberts photograph collection
> >
> >
> >
> > This deletion discussion may be of some interest.
> >
> > Matt
> >
> > 2009/11/8 Andrew <orderinchaos78 at gmail.com>
> >
> > indeed, fantastic effort :) I like the way in which it's been done - i.e.
> > they still have control over what gets released, but then anything they
> > decide to release is public. Makes it a lot less scary for the GLAM.
> >
> > 2009/11/7 Gnangarra <gnangarra at gmail.com>
> >
> >
> >
> > the file http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Hearse-r.jpg has been
> added
> > to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearse#History there are some really
> > interesting image in the ones already uploaded thanks for your efforts
> Craig
> >
> >
> > 2009/11/6 Craig Franklin <craig at halo-17.net>
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> >
> >
> > I’m pleased to announce that based on some contacts that I made at the
> > GLAM-WIKI conference back in August, and some onsite work that the
> Brisbane
> > Wikimedia community has been doing at the Queensland Museum (QM), the
> Museum
> > has commenced uploading digitized images from their “A E (Bert) Roberts”
> > photograph collection to Commons.  Bert Roberts was a coachbuilder from
> > Ipswich in the early 1900s , but also enjoyed photography and took
> > photographs of a wide variety of subjects, chiefly scenes of everyday
> life
> > in Queensland from the time.  While not famous for his photography during
> > his lifetime, after his death his collection of images came to be
> recognised
> > as providing a unique view into the society of the time.  His photographs
> > are the subject of a Queensland Museum exhibition, which chiefly resides
> at
> > their Toowoomba campus (the Cobb & Co Museum), but which presently has
> > travelled to Ipswich for a limited time.
> >
> >
> >
> > So far, 21 images have been uploaded to Commons, but there are over a
> > thousand glass plate negatives in total that the Museum has.  You can see
> > what’s been uploaded so far here:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:A_E_%22Bert%22_Roberts_plate_glass_photo_collection
> >
> >
> >
> > My request to all of you, basically, is to:
> >
> >
> >
> > ·         Categorise, enhance, and basically edit the file pages as much
> as
> > possible.
> >
> > ·         Look for appropriate pages on Wikipedia and other places where
> > this content can be used, and use it.
> >
> > ·         Spread the word that GLAM institutions are seeing the benefits
> of
> > making their collections available through Commons and other free media
> > repositories!
> >
> > ·         Watch out and make sure the pages aren’t vandalised, and any
> > problems that crop up are dealt with quickly so that QM can concentrate
> on
> > providing us with free content, and not learning arcane points of
> Wiki-law.
> >
> >
> >
> > Many of the original plate glass negatives held by the museum have not
> been
> > digitised yet, but if there is anyone who would be interested in
> > volunteering some of their time to learn how to do, and then actually
> *do*
> > the digitisation, there may be an opportunity to get in and do that.  If
> > you’re interested (and preferably have some “serious” photography
> > experience), let me know and I’ll pass your details on.
> >
> >
> >
> > It’s my hope that this will be but the first of many successful
> > collaborations between WMAU people and GLAM institutions throughout the
> > country.  I already have a couple of other collaborations cooking away
> here
> > in Queensland that will hopefully result in a win not only for the WM
> > projects, but also open access to cultural and heritage material in
> > general.
> >
> >
> >
> > If anyone has any questions regarding these particular images, please
> feel
> > free to ask me!
> >
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Craig Franklin
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
> > --
> > GN.
> > http://gnangarra.redbubble.com/
> >
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