Hello,
My comments are in a personal capacity, and kindly note my posts are not
directed towards anyone specifically/at all. Sincere thanks for
understanding these two points.
" We recommend you to have a look at these updates before making further
conclusions here.
-- Thanks for the recommendation. Kindly do not assume that we are not
reading the updates "before making further conclusions here".
" the Brand team has been watching the RfC and has written a summary about
it"
--Yes, RfC needs a closure/summary, from which we get action points. Now,
there is something called WP:INVOLVED. Someone who is
supporting/opposing/promoting/demoting an idea or in other words someone
who is "involved" often may not close or summarise a debate/discussion with
due weight to all the arguments. As a result, conclusions may be faulty,
and action points may not reflect the actual opinion of the RfC. Example
below.
FAQ: Why is this project moving forward after the RfC resulted in clear
majority opposition?
(
?)
-- Even after reading the answer I also don't understand "why?" A point I
get there is "exploring further options". On the report page, "What is
happening with the feedback?" (intended action points section perhaps) is
taking me to FAQ page. From the FAQ page the last paragraph sends me back
to the report page, making it a loop.
" The team has integrated the feedback of the RfC in the development
process, just as we did with the activities organized by the project
itself. "
-- unlike other statements here any footnote or reference is not given.
Would love to learn what are those activities and how was the RfC feedback
integrated into the agenda/activity. (Please note that I have read the
brand workshop report.)
That's all for now, with regards, and good wishes during the global
pandemic time,
User:Titodutta
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 at 14:19, Samir Elsharbaty <selsharbaty(a)wikimedia.org>
wrote:
Hi, the Brand team has been watching the RfC and
has written a summary
about it [1] that was shared both in the RfC [2] and the project page [3]
in Meta. The team has integrated the feedback of the RfC in the development
process, just as we did with the activities organized by the project
itself.
The RfC is covered in the main project page as well as in the FAQ [4]. The
RfC has been a recurrent topic of discussion in the Brand project talk page
[5], where we are answering questions and discussing topics whenever they
are posted. We recommend you to have a look at these updates before making
further conclusions here.
The RfC is about the use of the word “Wikipedia” in the name of the
Foundation, and by extension the names of affiliates were discussed as
well. The project team has clarified that many options for a naming
convention are being explored. While having Wikipedia as a central concept
is a project requirement, It is very unlikely that any naming convention
proposal will be based on a simple substitution of the word "Wikimedia"
with the word "Wikipedia". Brand systems offer many more possibilities.
Another important point to clarify is that the proposals for naming
conventions haven’t been defined yet. According to the project timeline
[6], several proposals for a naming convention will be shared with the
communities for feedback in May, at the earliest. At the end of this
review, one proposal will be selected and refined. You can check the
timeline to learn about further phases with public reviews before the full
proposal for a brand system is presented to the Wikimedia Foundation
leadership and the Board.
[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_moveme…
[2]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Requests_for_comment/Should_the_Founda…
[3]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_moveme…
[4]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_moveme…
[5]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_m…
Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 1:12 AM David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Yes. Who's the person telling Samir to post
this stuff, which comes
across as aggressively ignoring all feedback to date? Could we have a
word with them here?
- d.
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 14:12, Peter Southwood
<peter.southwood(a)telkomsa.net> wrote:
When you speak for someone who is hard of listening, it is an
occupational hazard
that you will be shouted at occasionally by those
whose
voices are being ignored. It is not necessarily
anything personal, just
part of the heat in the kitchen.
Cheers,
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On
Behalf Of
Yaroslav Blanter
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 11:28 AM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
In all honesty, this should not have been directed at Samir. I do not
think
> he has the authority to stop the process. And whoever has probably
spends
> more time in Twitter that in Wikimedia
projects.
>
> Best
> Yaroslav
>
> On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 11:12 AM Tito Dutta <trulytito(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> There is something called [[WP:IDHT,]] i.e. I didn't hear that.
> No matter how many times, how many people (90% in the RFC) speak, I
just
> didn't hear that.
> Kind regards,
> (Comment in personal capacity)
>
> Thanks
>
>
> On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 00:15, Samir Elsharbaty <
selsharbaty(a)wikimedia.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > We wanted to follow up with a brief update on the project timeline
and
> > share an invitation to join an event
this month.
> >
> > We know there continues to be so much uncertainty in the world, so
we
are
> > slowing down the process of the
project. Big changes are happening
to all
> > of us these days. We want to make sure
that we respect the time and
> > priorities of the project collaborators. This means updating the
project
> > timeline approach to have more
flexibility for participants and
smaller
> > time commitments [1], revising the
project schedule month by month
and
> > keeping the Brand Network [2] and other
participants informed on a
more
> > regular basis with any updates and
changes. The naming discussions
> planned
> > for April are now pushed to May, at the earliest. Design proposals
are
> > likewise shifted +4 weeks.
> >
> > But we do have things to share:
> >
> > *This month: live brand concept presentation!*
> >
> > To honor, celebrate, and conclude the work around the concepts
referred
> > to
> > > in Essie’s email above [3], Snohetta and the Brand Project team
will
> >
present the Unified Concept LIVE on 16 April, 15:00 - 16:00 GMT.
Snøhetta
> > > will explain how they used the ideas, feedback and conceptual
models
from
> > the workshops and online exercises to
arrive at a final, unified
concept.
> > This unified concept will be the
foundation for the upcoming work
around
> > the naming conventions, visual
decisions, and the overall design
system.
> > The session will also be recorded and
made available for viewing
after.
> You
> > can join us using these links. [4] Note: this is not a presentation
of
a
> > proposal for a naming convention or
design.
> >
> > Thank you!
> >
> > Samir and the brand project team
> >
> > [1]
> >
> >
>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_moveme…
>
>
> > [2]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Brand_Network
> >
> > [3]
https://brandingwikipedia.org/concepts/
> >
> > [4] Join via Zoom:
> >
> >
https://wikimedia.zoom.us/j/769565325
> >
> > Steam via Youtube Live:
> >
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS72O6Si94Q
> >
> > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
> >
> > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
> >
> > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 10:32 AM David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> >
> > > The article itself is spammy brochure-style nonsense, and this is
even
> > > after some cleanup. Editorial eyes
welcomed.
> > >
> > >
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_(company)
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_%28company%29>
> > >
> > >
> > > - d.
> > >
> > > On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 23:16, Samir Elsharbaty
> > > <selsharbaty(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi everyone,
> > > >
> > > > The Brand Project Team felt it was important to address the
concerns
> > > and
> > > > > questions around Snøhetta and the English Wikipedia, and have
now
>
added
> > > an
> > > > FAQ about it. [1] Please refer there for the full details about
the
> > block
> > > > and what is being done. The project team is in the process of
> updating
> > > the
> > > > project materials, including the FAQ, so feel free to add those
pages
> > to
> > > > your watchlist to stay up to date on the latest information.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Best,
> > > >
> > > > Samir
> > > >
> > > > [1]
https://w.wiki/LEF
> > > >
> > > > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
> > > >
> > > > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
> > > >
> > > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:43 AM Gnangarra <gnangarra(a)gmail.com
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > This does have feeling of a company creating a financial
> relationship
> > > with
> > > > > the Foundation as way to bypass or backdoor a community ban
thats
> > > been
> > > > > > reviewed already. Over the years I've worked with
many
users
who
> > > been
> > > > > > blocked and help them become productive contributors but
before
>
they
> > > start
> > > > > making recommendation or decisions about who we are there
needs to
> be
> > > > > something done to get them back to good standing with the
community
> > > first
> > > > > untiil thats taken place. It's like asking the fox to
rebuild
> the
> > > hen
> > > > > house, I just dont see how I could support anything they
> recommend.
> > > > >
> > > > > After the dollars, and t=volunteer time that has been pumped
into
> the
> > > 2030
> > > > > strategy shouldnt we already know who we are, as it is that
should
> > > have
> > > > > > been the key starting point for a strategy process. Its
> > > comprehensible
> > > > not
> > > > > > to have known or explored that before deciding where, how,
why
we
> > > will
> > > > be
> > > > > > doing anything for the next 10 years.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 03:20, David Gerard <
dgerard(a)gmail.com>
> >
wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Particularly as they've demonstrated by their actions
an
> > > unwillingness
> > > > > > to work with Wikipedia properly:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> >
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archi…
> >
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - d.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 at 04:34, Peter Southwood
> > > > > > <peter.southwood(a)telkomsa.net> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I would agree with this in principle. From what I have
seen so
> > > far, it
> > > > > > looks like either Snøhetta have not done their homework on
how we
> > > > > operate,
> > > > > > or they have the arrogance of PR agencies, don't care,
and
plan
> to
> > > spin
> > > > > > their way through with smoke and mirrors, flashy pages with
lots
> of
> > > buzz,
> > > > > > little content and all the dialogue they can't avoid.
Maybe
I am
> > > wrong,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell from the
outside?
> > > Block
> > > > > > evasion does not bode well for their understanding of the
> > community.
> > > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > > Peter
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:
> > wikimedia-l-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org]
> > > On
> > > > > > Behalf Of Pine W
> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM
> > > > > > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we
as a
> > movement?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hello,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't
directed
> > personally
> > > at
> > > > > > > you, Essie.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Even if money was unlimited, I thought that Snøhetta
deserved
> the
> > > > > > > community's trust, and I felt that WMF was a good
steward
of
> > > > resources
> > > > > > > > (all of which are questionable), I don't
think that this
> > project
> > > > is a
> > > > > > > > good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly important
component
of
> the
> > > > > > > Wikiverse, and there are a some problems with WMF
rebranding
> > > itself as
> > > > > > > the Wikipedia Foundation including the risk to the
communities
> > > and
> > > > > > > > affiliates from WMF's political adventures,
governance
> > problems,
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > occasional high profile clashes with the
community. I
don't
> > think
> > > > that
> > > > > > > > the costs or the risks here make sense, I
wouldn't
involve
> > > Snøhetta
> > > > > > > > given its apparent block evasion on English
Wikipedia,
and
I've
> > > > been
> > > > > > > > unimpressed with WMF's handling of this
process during
the
past
> > few
> > > > > > > months.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I am fine with discussions about branding, but not
with
this
> > > > program
> > > > > > > > in its current form.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Given the choice, I would freeze this project and
spending
> >
> associated
> > > > > > > with it pending a Meta RfC regarding the
community's view
on
> > > whether
> > > > > > > this project should continue. If the community wants a
branding
> > > > > > > project to
continue, I would let the community decide on
the
> > > > project's
> > > > > > > > parameters and budget, and what if any consultant
should
be
> > > > involved.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Pine
> > > > > > > > (
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > GN.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *Power of Diverse Collaboration*
> > > > > > *Sharing knowledge brings people together*
> > > > > > Wikimania Bangkok 2021
> > > > > > August
> > > > > > hosted by ESEAP
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Wikimania:
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> >
> > > Noongarpedia:
>
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> > > > > Photo Gallery:
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