Gerard
You raise some interesting points. I quite agree that this list is a
useful venue where one can discuss overarching strategic issues and where
senior WMF staff and trustees are able to engage with community members
about those issues. I myself have had some quite productive discussions
here along those lines. I do hope that whatever arrangements are made for
reformulating the parameters of engagement here do not prejudice that
usefulness.
One issue I have observed is that list members in their zeal to be helpful
can sometimes obscure the issue. For example, if one asks "What is the
Foundations policy on X?", it is apt to start up a discussion about X, or
about what the policy might be, or ought to be, or what English-language
Wikipedians think of X, rather than what the WMF policy on X actually is.
This can sometimes lead to confusion. Perhaps new posting limits will help
to alleviate that.
Reid
On Sun, Aug 27, 2017 at 11:25 AM, Natacha Rault <n.rault(a)me.com> wrote:
Hello, my short comment on this: the posts are
lengthy, and from the
outside it is hard to understand what it is all about. It would be great if
at some point in long conversations, someone could resume the issues in a
short paragraph.
Kind regards
Nattes à chat
Le 27 août 2017 à 11:17, Fæ
<faewik(a)gmail.com> a écrit :
Several emails on this topic have been essay length, including some from
list moderators. If post limits are halved, this may become more common.
Many readers, especially those like me viewing on a phone when scanning
through emails, will skip essays which are several screens long. Please
consider the good practice of opening with a one paragraph precis, or
TLDR
section, for any long post. This way, those who
have tiny screens, or
short
attention spans, can get the point and will be
much more likely to return
to the essay later.
Thanks, Fae (writing without a keyboard)
On 27 Aug 2017 09:50, "Peter Southwood" <peter.southwood(a)telkomsa.net>
wrote:
Hey, it is nearly the end of the month, I will expend another rationed
posting to agree with Gerard on this point because I think it is vitally
important. He expresses my sentiments very closely on this point, and
although I may disapprove of his tone occasionally, I think he is a fine
example of someone who may not always echo the mainstream opinion, but I
have never doubted his good faith intentions to improve the Wikimedia
projects.
Cheers,
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On
Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen
Sent: Sunday, 27 August 2017 8:25 AM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] What is the purpose of the Wikimedia mailinglist
Hoi,
I was invited to positively give my opinion about the Wikimedia
mailinglist
and its use by one of the list managers.
So the first thing to consider is what is the list for. This is largely a
given because of its name; it is to discuss things that are primarily
concerned with "Wikimedia" both as a movement and as an organisation. It
is
not about Wikipedia in general, it has its own
list; wikipedia-l, and
there
are even lists for language specific Wikipedias.
The topic of Wikimedia makes it very much a macro or high level. It
follows
that many of the subjects that are not topical
elsewhere have there
proper
home on this list. When a post transcends a local
list because there is a
high level consideration, Wikimedia-l is also the right venue.
Some topics that are of interest to me and are high level are: the multi
linguality of our projects and its support. As a consequence the lack of
funding and interest in other languages. As a movement we agree on the
need
to consider the gender gap. However there are
other diversity issues that
do not get attention. When quality improvements are possible in multiple
projects, the discussion about this starts here.
What I have found is that this whole notion of the purpose of this list
is
lost. When a topic raised on the list is answered
with high level
arguments, it is easily seen as "highjacking". That is normal because
from
a sociological point of view, high level
considerations and low level
considerations often work in different directions (think Coleman).
Then there is another consideration; intent. The objective of this list
is
to discuss ways whereby we can understand and
improve what is happening
in
our movement. For me it follows that when it is
known for a list member
to
actively undermine our foundation, he has no
place here. That *is *the
kind
of noise we can do without. When someone is
punished for having a point
of
view that aims to improve what we do but has a
position that is not the
flavour of the month, it is a different story. The list itself has a
problem when these to considerations are not part of the management of
the
list.
The current proposals will not improve the Wikimedia-l because it is
restrictive in its approach. It is what some people may want, a lower
volume. But others like myself have weaned themselves of Meta because it
is
such a time sink. There are at this time other
platforms as well where
people obstruct (imho) probably with good intentions but without
understanding of the arguments that it has become virtually impossible to
come to a consensus anyway. Floating arguments on Wikimedia-l is one way
to
get a traction, actively working towards the
hoped for outcome and
blogging
makes it complete for me.
With the current restrictions proposed, I do not feel safe. There is no
longer room to reflect on arguments. There is no longer room to reply
because of this arbitrary limitation to post.
Remember, this list is to make a positive difference for our movement.
Few
posts only allow for making statements and not
for discussions. Many of
the
arguments put forward are arguably wrong even
detrimental to what we do.
Thanks,
GerardM
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