[Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself

Thu Sep 5 19:28:21 UTC 2013

No thank you, I do not have a dispute; you do; please follow the dispute
resolution procedure.

Fred

> Hi  Tom
>
> Thanks for your contribution. However, you seem to have missed the point.
>
> So Lisa violates the 3RR principle and you lecture me. And I lodge a
> complaint over the 3RR and that gets closed without due process.
>
> Would you care to touch on those tho aspects and advance your opinion on
> the 3RR violation being swept under the carpet? And reporting of a 3RR
> violation being swept under the same carpet?
>
> I must presume that you condone the action of the other editor?
>
> And for your information, everytime I have come across people that
> monitor
> even the talkpage of their favourite articles you can be sure that it is
> about the content of what is posted, but about whether or not the comment
> casts the subject of the article in a bad light.
>
> Perhaps you might care to look into this and look into the edit history
> of
> these editors?
>
> Regards,
>
> Rui
>
>
>
>
> On 5 September 2013 14:18, Thomas Morton
> <morton.thomas at googlemail.com>wrote:
>
>> Lets just be clear here, the contributuion Rui is talking about was as
>> follows:
>>
>> Must be a joke - how can moving from W8 to W XP be called a downgrade?
>> W8
>> is crap! I want a computer, not a basket of "apps" for retarded
>> morons!<
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Windows_XP&oldid=571533769
>> >
>>
>> His response to its removal is to suggest those removing it are paid
>> Pro-Microsoft editors.
>>
>> Rui, what I'm going to suggest here is that you've not really
>> understood
>> the processes that go into collaborating on an article. You may well be
>> right that the content needs changing, but your presentation of a
>> personal
>> opinion in such a ranting form makes it very hard to collaborate.
>>
>> Look at it from another side. If you'd put a lot of effort into writing
>> and
>> article and then someone turned up on the talk page to post what looked
>> like a personal rant about the content, citing no sources and putting
>> very
>> little in the way of suggested changes.... would you be peeved? Would
>> you
>> wonder if perhaps that editor was a paid editor sent to disrupt the
>> article
>> by a competitor?
>>
>> Would you be offended if Lisa held that view about you (that you were a
>> paid advocate?).
>>
>> So, yes, Wikipedia has a big problem. But it's not just abusive admins
>> (we
>> have a few) and grumpy editors, or paid advocates. It is a broad
>> spectrum
>> of problems - and in this case you were the one with the
>> less-than-perfect
>> contribution.
>>
>> Broadly speaking this is an education problem; we need to bring more
>> focus
>> on the concept of the talk page as a collaboration portal *not* as a
>> place
>> to discuss the topic (i.e. NOTFORUM) and we also need to emphasise the
>> importance of making comments in the right tone, and with supporting
>> sources.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Tom
>>
>>
>> On 4 September 2013 22:08, Rui Correia <correia.rui at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Greetings to All
>> >
>> > Let me start by saying that I don't do much here at the WP, not
>> compared
>> to
>> > people who make hundreds of edits a week. I would love to, have a
>> long
>> list
>> > of "to-do", but unfortunately time is not on my side.
>> >
>> > In my limited involvemet here, I have seen many a good editor leave
>> the
>> > project. Mostly, people leave because they can't take it anymore
>> having
>> to
>> > fight the 'blocks' of defenders that coalesce around certain topics.
>> >
>> > In itself, though not very healthy, such blocks forming around topis
>> is
>> > fine. What is not fine is that if any issue gets referred to a higher
>> > process for a resolution, it is often the same people grouping of
>> people
>> > previously involved in disputes on the same topic who come to the
>> > resolution forum to issue a decision. However, it is always the
>> 'outsider'
>> > that loses. He gets acused of everything under the sun, and gets
>> 'good
>> > advice' from supposedly neutral editors, urging him to calm down, to
>> temper
>> > his language etc. It is like trying to point out that the earth is
>> round
>> at
>> > a monthly meetng of the fat-earthers. That is not healthy and is
>> making
>> the
>> > WP processes look like a kangaroo court run by a cabal.
>> >
>> > And I expect pretty much the same reaction to this email.
>> >
>> > I pointed out in an ealier email to this list the difficulty that one
>> > encounters when you include something negative about certain big
>> > corporations. I was stoned and made to feel that I was wrong and
>> everbody
>> > else was right. The reaction was tantamount to a chorus of "yes, we
>> know
>> > there are problems, but don't say it out loud, someone might hear
>> you!".
>> >
>> > Let's for argument's say that I was wrong. But - more importantantly
>> -
>> was
>> > anything done to investigate what I was saying? What if there are
>> legions
>> > out there paid to sanitise the pages of big corporations? And we know
>> that
>> > they exist, and that WP has taken up the issue as in here,
>> >
>> >
>> http://nick-xomba-ceo.xomba.com/microsoft_accused_of_paying_blogger_to_alter_wikipedia_articles
>> >
>> > I made a silly remark on a Talk page about the choice of the word
>> > "downgrade" to refer to people using Windows 8 who wanted to go back
>> to
>> XP.
>> > For a failed product, by Microsoft's own admission, going back to XP
>> is
>> an
>> > upgrade, going back to sanity, not a downgrade.
>> >
>> > I was first accused of trolling, then something else, then of
>> offending
>> the
>> > entire community of users of Windows 8. The editor who is adamant -
>> not
>> the
>> > first time - to purge ant-MS from the talkpage violated the 3RR, but
>> > nothing gets done about it. I reported the 3RR, and it was
>> immediately
>> > closed, labelled as being relatiatory. There is a backlog of issues
>> on
>> that
>> > page, but my entry was closed within minutes.
>> >
>> >
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_warring#User:Codename_Lisa_reported_by_User:Rui_Gabriel_Correia_.28Result:_Closed.29
>> >
>> > It was closed, claiming that it was already being addressed
>> elsewhere.
>> >
>> > So, I too will consider my stay here. Like I said right at the top, I
>> don't
>> > do much here, so I am certain I will not even be missed. I edit in
>> eight
>> > languages, small little bits here and there. I participated in a
>> number
>> of
>> > initiaves on the development of Chapters in Africa and am happy to
>> see
>> that
>> > things are moving. I had the honour and privilege to meet Jimmy Wales
>> in
>> > South Africa and to discuss a few things relating to WP in Africa.
>> >
>> > So, it is time to wind down anr retire into a corner. I am busy with
>> a
>> > novel, I am sure that is where I should invest my time and energy.
>> >
>> > Sincere regards to all, happy editing
>> >
>> > Rui Correia
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > _________________________
>> > Rui Correia
>> > Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Work Consultant
>> > Bridge to Angola - Angola Liaison Consultant
>> >
>> > Mobile Number in South Africa +27 74 425 4186
>> > NÃºmero de TelemÃ³vel na Ãfrica do Sul +27 74 425 4186
>> > _______________
>> > _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
> --
> _________________________
> Rui Correia
> Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Work Consultant
> Bridge to Angola - Angola Liaison Consultant
>
> Mobile Number in South Africa +27 74 425 4186
> NÃºmero de TelemÃ³vel na Ãfrica do Sul +27 74 425 4186
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