[Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself

[Lars Gardenius]

Perhaps you should think again Anders. It certainly also has to do with the Swedish wikis.

You just repeated what you wrote earlier.


Regards,
Lars Gardenius


________________________________
 Von: Anders Wennersten <mail at anderswennersten.se>
An: wikimedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org 
Gesendet: 13:23 Donnerstag, 5.September 2013
Betreff: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself
 

Should not this discussion be held on he maillist for English wikipedia?

There is not much, if any,  of what is being discussed that I can 
recognize from my home wp

Anders



Fred Bauder skrev 2013-09-05 13:18:
> That was the purpose of the original arbitration committee. Finding a
> mentor is kind of hard nowdays as there are so many users who might help
> but probably will not. On the other hand, many requests I have received
> and looked into are from people who are making trouble themselves;
> sometimes very serious trouble. Giving a second chance to someone who has
> been banned by the community after extended discussion seldom works out
> well. But that's not a newbie who has run into serious trouble just for
> making jokes about Windoze...
>
> Fred
>
>> It is very laudable if you, Peter, tries and help newbies and others that
>> are harassed by other users.
>>
>> I however don't think it is enough in a worldwide organization that you
>> have to rely on volunteers and that these will intervene.
>>
>> As I see it, if you start such an organization you must also take on the
>> responsibilities that follows.
>> You can't just duck and pretend that you can hand over all problems to
>> the users.
>>
>> I still think that an international organization like the Wikis demands
>> an instance to which mistreated and mobbed users can turn. An instance
>> with the responsibility that normal rules in a society are upheld and
>> with the authority to uphold them.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Lars Gardenius
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>>   Von: Peter Gervai <grinapo at gmail.com>
>> An: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
>> Gesendet: 10:50 Donnerstag, 5.September 2013
>> Betreff: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Lars Gardenius <lars.gardenius at yahoo.de>
>> wrote:
>>> No I don't think it is being addressed. Not in a serious way.
>> You mean it's not _solved_. Indeed.
>>
>> At least one problem was mentioned in the thread which is that the
>> (honest, knowledgeable) newbies have unproportionally smaller
>> debating/lobbying power than aboriginals, and they are very easy to
>> oppress. This is an ongoing problem for the last decade or so and no
>> good solution seem to exist.
>>
>> In theory there are (or could be) volunteers who could be called in
>> cases of newbie oppression from the experienced troll^H^H^H^Heditors
>> who would declare that they try to act as neutral as possible but they
>> would possess more experience to handle obnoxious editors and other
>> regual beings. Arbitration, mentoring, whatever we like to call it.
>> Obviously it only worked if there's a free way to reject a request (if
>> the volunteer believes the newbie has no merits, let's not call them
>> outright trolls and vandals) and if it isn't an "official" cabal but a
>> large catalog of helpful and experienced editors.
>>
>> I have often done it (and still occasionally do on Commons since it's
>> a pretty harsh environment for newbies) and it's doable if there's
>> enough volunteers and people don't try to do it too often, I mean, one
>> in a week or month or so.
>>
>> The point is to have a group of random people who are not involved in
>> the debate but could help to communicate with the members of the
>> community. (Since they're uninvolved it's probably useless to call
>> them biased, which is the easiest unargument I've seen in such
>> debates.)
>>
>> g
>>
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