[Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself

[Lars Gardenius]

No, I just responded to a problem that I recognized well.

If you call him/her this or that is not important.

The important thing is that the person (or group of persons) has the responsibility and the power to fulfil its task, i.e. to protect Wiki-users from abuses and mobbing. Today nobody has neither that responsibility nor that power.

regards,
Lars Gardenius




________________________________
 Von: Fred Bauder <fredbaud at fairpoint.net>
An: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org> 
Gesendet: 18:44 Donnerstag, 5.September 2013
Betreff: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself
 

And your solution is an ombudsman, or what? I know there is a solution
that you have in mind. In fact, it looks very much like a solution in
search of a problem. Out with it!

Fred

> The problem is that "howls of outraged anguish" seems to come from the
> admins not from the newbies.
>
> But that was not the question here. The question was that the Wikis lack
> an instance that people can turn to when they are harassed and mobbed in
> the wikis, be that newbies or admins, children or old folks, women or
> men.
>
> Regards,
> Lars Gardenius
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>  Von: Fred Bauder <fredbaud at fairpoint.net>
> An: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Gesendet: 18:03 Donnerstag, 5.September 2013
> Betreff: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself
>
>
> Yes, that is pretty much the situation. The howls of outraged anguish
> from those who were not able to dictate (really bad) content or practices
> form the core of our organized opposition. That does not mean systemic
> deficiencies don't exist; just that we must look and think in a noisy
> environment.
>
> Fred
>
>> On 09/05/2013 04:18 AM, Lars Gardenius wrote:
>>> That "Wikipedia:Dispute resolution" mirrors a very naive approach in a
>>> worldwide organization. It has never worked before and it doesn't work
>>> now.
>>
>> Where "doesn't work" is mostly defined as "didn't give the result I
>> demanded".
>>
>> I've been part of that dispute resolution process for many years, and
>> came out of it with the (admittedly cynical) lesson that the vast
>> majority of vocal critics of it have become so as a result of "losing"
>> to it for having been in the wrong in the first place.
>>
>> When someone leaves in a tiff because they have been prevented from
>> getting their way against consensus, then the system is arguably doing
>> exactly what it's been designed for.
>>
>> Of /course/ nobody ends up in a conflict on the projects without being
>> convinced that they are in the right; and if they end up on the losing
>> side, they will clearly feel that they were wronged.  We play up the
>> concept of discussion leading to consensus but -- let's not kid
>> ourselves -- we are all humans and thus subject to ego, stubbornness,
>> and personality conflicts.
>>
>> There *are* no vast, sweeping injustices.  No system is perfect and,
>> occasionally, errors *are* made; but the leap from "the system didn't
>> let me get my way" to "the system is broken/dying" is all to easy to
>> make, and is an unavoidable result of humans interacting.
>>
>> This certainly could be improved.  More education of users upfront
>> might
>> prevent the confrontations in the first place; less reliance on
>> established cliques would reduce groupthink and exaggerated
>> conservatism.  More robots and fewer humans would reduce the effects of
>> human nature...
>>
>> -- Marc
>>
>>
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