[Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself

[Thomas Morton]

Lets just be clear here, the contributuion Rui is talking about was as
follows:

Must be a joke - how can moving from W8 to W XP be called a downgrade? W8
is crap! I want a computer, not a basket of "apps" for retarded
morons!<https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Windows_XP&oldid=571533769>

His response to its removal is to suggest those removing it are paid
Pro-Microsoft editors.

Rui, what I'm going to suggest here is that you've not really understood
the processes that go into collaborating on an article. You may well be
right that the content needs changing, but your presentation of a personal
opinion in such a ranting form makes it very hard to collaborate.

Look at it from another side. If you'd put a lot of effort into writing and
article and then someone turned up on the talk page to post what looked
like a personal rant about the content, citing no sources and putting very
little in the way of suggested changes.... would you be peeved? Would you
wonder if perhaps that editor was a paid editor sent to disrupt the article
by a competitor?

Would you be offended if Lisa held that view about you (that you were a
paid advocate?).

So, yes, Wikipedia has a big problem. But it's not just abusive admins (we
have a few) and grumpy editors, or paid advocates. It is a broad spectrum
of problems - and in this case you were the one with the less-than-perfect
contribution.

Broadly speaking this is an education problem; we need to bring more focus
on the concept of the talk page as a collaboration portal *not* as a place
to discuss the topic (i.e. NOTFORUM) and we also need to emphasise the
importance of making comments in the right tone, and with supporting
sources.

Regards,
Tom


On 4 September 2013 22:08, Rui Correia <correia.rui at gmail.com> wrote:

> Greetings to All
>
> Let me start by saying that I don't do much here at the WP, not compared to
> people who make hundreds of edits a week. I would love to, have a long list
> of "to-do", but unfortunately time is not on my side.
>
> In my limited involvemet here, I have seen many a good editor leave the
> project. Mostly, people leave because they can't take it anymore having to
> fight the 'blocks' of defenders that coalesce around certain topics.
>
> In itself, though not very healthy, such blocks forming around topis is
> fine. What is not fine is that if any issue gets referred to a higher
> process for a resolution, it is often the same people grouping of people
> previously involved in disputes on the same topic who come to the
> resolution forum to issue a decision. However, it is always the 'outsider'
> that loses. He gets acused of everything under the sun, and gets 'good
> advice' from supposedly neutral editors, urging him to calm down, to temper
> his language etc. It is like trying to point out that the earth is round at
> a monthly meetng of the fat-earthers. That is not healthy and is making the
> WP processes look like a kangaroo court run by a cabal.
>
> And I expect pretty much the same reaction to this email.
>
> I pointed out in an ealier email to this list the difficulty that one
> encounters when you include something negative about certain big
> corporations. I was stoned and made to feel that I was wrong and everbody
> else was right. The reaction was tantamount to a chorus of "yes, we know
> there are problems, but don't say it out loud, someone might hear you!".
>
> Let's for argument's say that I was wrong. But - more importantantly - was
> anything done to investigate what I was saying? What if there are legions
> out there paid to sanitise the pages of big corporations? And we know that
> they exist, and that WP has taken up the issue as in here,
>
> http://nick-xomba-ceo.xomba.com/microsoft_accused_of_paying_blogger_to_alter_wikipedia_articles
>
> I made a silly remark on a Talk page about the choice of the word
> "downgrade" to refer to people using Windows 8 who wanted to go back to XP.
> For a failed product, by Microsoft's own admission, going back to XP is an
> upgrade, going back to sanity, not a downgrade.
>
> I was first accused of trolling, then something else, then of offending the
> entire community of users of Windows 8. The editor who is adamant - not the
> first time - to purge ant-MS from the talkpage violated the 3RR, but
> nothing gets done about it. I reported the 3RR, and it was immediately
> closed, labelled as being relatiatory. There is a backlog of issues on that
> page, but my entry was closed within minutes.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_warring#User:Codename_Lisa_reported_by_User:Rui_Gabriel_Correia_.28Result:_Closed.29
>
> It was closed, claiming that it was already being addressed elsewhere.
>
> So, I too will consider my stay here. Like I said right at the top, I don't
> do much here, so I am certain I will not even be missed. I edit in eight
> languages, small little bits here and there. I participated in a number of
> initiaves on the development of Chapters in Africa and am happy to see that
> things are moving. I had the honour and privilege to meet Jimmy Wales in
> South Africa and to discuss a few things relating to WP in Africa.
>
> So, it is time to wind down anr retire into a corner. I am busy with a
> novel, I am sure that is where I should invest my time and energy.
>
> Sincere regards to all, happy editing
>
> Rui Correia
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> _________________________
> Rui Correia
> Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Work Consultant
> Bridge to Angola - Angola Liaison Consultant
>
> Mobile Number in South Africa +27 74 425 4186
> Número de Telemóvel na África do Sul +27 74 425 4186
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