[Wikimedia-l] AffComs $40,000 Hong Kong junket

Tue May 14 19:53:03 UTC 2013

Hi,
I think the question here should be more general, not for the particular
case of AffCom only. We should really give a serious thought on whether
such big expenditures are really worth the money or not. And it should
encompass all the parties to the movement (volunteers, chapter members,
WMF). Here, the choice of hotel really seems expensive. Though I didn't
have any prior idea about hotel rent in Hong Kong, I searched on google for
some good quality hotels in Tsim Sha Tsui area and found that there are
many 4 star hotels (also highly rated) that have room rent within $110 to
$150 range. Link:
http://www.agoda.com/pages/agoda/default/DestinationSearchResult.aspx?asq=bs17wTmKLORqTfZUfjFABizf6xim3HxBNSprgOQXrVsxfdzWn0%2f0znqfDl5OpHpJEpI6UxJ3hIJhRGCSVK%2f54u4zfq8pkoaMpcy7sIc2UgCZdKAkRVT5G%2fOzan8m99LRyQrMqUm5cC3FKFKM4Rpinbn%2fmElm0M49SNeQL0KmHao%3d&tick=635041800643

So, if there is option to save some movement money then why not!

Thanks

Tonmoy

Ali Haidar Khan (tOnmOy)
Treasurer
Wikimedia Bangladesh

"ভাবুনতো এমন এক পৃথিবীর কথা, যেখানে প্রতিটি মানুষ সমস্ত জ্ঞান বাধাহীন ভাবে
আদান প্রদান করতে পারবে। এটাই আমাদের অঙ্গীকার।"

On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 7:50 PM, Itzik Edri <itzik at infra.co.il> wrote:

> Bence,
>
> I appreciate AffCom work, and everyone of the the committee volunteers that
> doing a great job. But I really don't like the excuse of sticking to WMF's
> policy. Without having to start discussing the WMF's policy, I
> think AffCom should be mature enough to adopt a similar policy behavior as
> the chapters which they confirms and leading in the start-up steps. Even in
> DC, Berlin and Milan - the WMF's booked expensive hotel, while the chapters
> were mature enough to stay in others good hotels with much more fair
> prices. Again, this is not the time for criticism of the policy and it's
> not AffCom fault, but you as volunteers, as part of the community, I think
> should have the maturity to say "Thanks for the option, but we prefer for
> the visibility and the fairness to book less expensive accommodation".
>
> BTW. 40,000$ it's about 25 scholarships we can give. Not saying AffCom
> don't need to attend Wikimania, but having much less fancy budget is always
> welcome.
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 12:01 AM, Bence Damokos <bdamokos at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Tomasz,
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 10:14 PM, Tomasz W. Kozlowski <
> > tomasz at twkozlowski.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Gregory Varnum wrote:
> > >
> > >  I am not sure what you mean by none of the members being willing to
> > >> comment.
> > >>
> > > > Our chair has responded several times on Meta and many others have
> > > responded
> > > > to Odder via email about this.
> > >
> > > Let me just straighten this, Greg. Nobody has ever contacted me via
> > e-mail
> > > about this except for the insults aimed at me after my first blog post
> on
> > > the matter — and you as an AffCom member should be especially aware of
> > > this, as the whole of AffCom was CC'd to every message that I received.
> > >
> > >
> > I apologise if the tone of some of the e-mails you have received were
> > harmful, and I am sorry for my involvement in that.
> > I think it really came down to the fact that we were quite surprised at
> the
> > time that as a committee member or adviser you did not feel able to raise
> > the issue or issues that you were perceiving. This lack of trust or
> ability
> > to communicate openly really saddened me.
> >
> > >
> > >  The hotel is in-line with WMF guidelines and as has been noted, we
> look
> > >> to
> > >>
> > > > the staff to book those reservations and make appropriate cost-saving
> > > decisions.
> > >
> > > Which is opposite to what the Committee has been doing so far; for
> > > instance, during the last Committee meeting, the then-ChapCom members
> > have
> > > been using the same accommodation as the rest of the conference
> > > participants — and that was a true a cost-saving decision.
> > >
> > If I remember correctly, at the time the Committee did not have a budget
> > and a number of details around fiscal responsibility ended up very
> > complicated out of sheer goodwill (with certain chapters paying AffCom
> > members' travel, Wikimedia Germany kindly offering to pay for those who
> had
> > to stay only an extra night, and the WMF paying from the Board's budget
> for
> > the rest) and the choice was probably made by me to stay with the chapter
> > delegates as that was the default.
> >
> > In any case, with the dedicated budget we have taken steps to greater
> > clarity and accountability and this involves making sure that the WMF
> pays
> > for AffCom travel, and that in turn we follow WMF policy on reimbursement
> > and choice of accommodation and in any other way they may prescribe for
> > spending our budget.
> > Technically and individually we could decide on anything that is cheaper
> > than what is allowed by policy (e.g. shared accommodation, or different
> > level of comfort), but those decisions would be made on the grounds of
> such
> > factors as the accommodation choice of others with whom we would want to
> > meet in off hours (including other AffCom or community members), medical
> > reasons, or strong personal aversion to a particular lodging.
> >
> > I believe that the details of the travel policy of the WMF are up to the
> > WMF to set and I don't think it is a good use of AffCom time to
> micromanage
> > the WMF's travel budget. If the WMF did decide that from now on it would
> > choose five-star hotels or only hostels with communal showers, would both
> > be unfortunate, but AffCom would then follow that policy. This is
> > regardless of whether personally I believe the WMF is making the best
> > choices when it comes to choosing accommodation, it is simply not our
> role
> > as AffCom to fix the WMF's travel policy, nor do I see much benefit in
> > "setting an example" when in reality AffCom only makes up a fraction of
> WMF
> > travellers (including those going to Wikimania).
> >
> > I am quite confident in the level of financial oversight the board and
> WMF
> > staff provide in making sure our budget is reasonable in the context of
> WMF
> > spending. I personally have spent a lot of time making sure our budget
> was
> > not seen as unreasonable or bloated by the WMF.
> >
> > We have made the decision to spend on an annual meeting, scholarships for
> > affiliates to be (for Wikimania and other events), start up grants, and
> > travel in general to be represented at events and to visit affiliates – I
> > think it would be more interesting to have a discussion about these
> > decisions than the choice of hotels or whether we could save a few
> dollars
> > by walking instead of taking the bus from the airport.
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Bence
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