[Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Fwd: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikimedia Servers and Copyright Issues

David Cuenca dacuetu at gmail.com
Sun May 12 14:03:36 UTC 2013

Hi Achal,

For those cases there is a Wikisource clone called Wikilivres, whose server
is in Canada and it is operated by a Canadian citizen.

It is not very fast, but it serves as storage for such cases since the
Canadian copyright law is quite permissive in that regard (50 years after
author/translator death).
Then you can link the works from the Wikisource author page to the work
page in Wikilivres as some Wikisources do.

If you have time, take also a look to the proposed improvements for
Wikisource. Thanks!

David  ---User:Micru

On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 5:27 AM, Achal Prabhala <aprabhala at gmail.com> wrote:

> Of relevance here: http://www.publicdomainday.**
> org/sites/www.publicdomainday.**eu/files/World_copyright-**terms.jpg<http://www.publicdomainday.org/sites/www.publicdomainday.eu/files/World_copyright-terms.jpg>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject:        Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikimedia Servers and Copyright
> Issues
> Date:   Sun, 12 May 2013 14:51:27 +0530
> From:   Achal Prabhala <aprabhala at gmail.com>
> To:     Wikimedia India Community list <wikimediaindia-l at lists.**
> wikimedia.org <wikimediaindia-l at lists.wikimedia.org>>
> Hi Balasankar,
> The question you raise is a very important one. The solution, however, is
> not likely to be to host content in India (I don't speak for the Wikimedia
> Foundation, but there are sound legal reasons why all Wikimedia content is
> hosted in the US; mostly liability risk and freedom of expression and this
> is unlikely to change).
> The default across Commons and Wikisource, the two projects that host the
> bulk of public domain content (images, videos, sounds, books) in Wikimedia,
> is the US copyright term - it's the only yardstick that matters for what
> qualifies as public domain by virtue of being out of copyright. You are
> absolutely right, however, in that there's a big difference btw US
> copyright terms and those of other countries, for instance:
> For photographs, while the binding limit (Berne/TRIPs) is 25 years from
> the making of the work, India is life of photographer + 60 years after
> death, and in the US it is life + 70.
> For literary works, the binding limit (Berne/ TRIPs) is life + 50 years,
> whereas in India it is life + 60, whereas in the US it is life + 70 or
> 120/95 if made on work for hire.
> (The binding limit is the WTO mandated term that country members - US and
> India and 150 others - have to follow. As you can see, typically, most
> countries exceed the limit for reasons of their own, which they are allowed
> to do, with the US exceeding in far greater amount than India.)
> In short, there can be a difference of between 10 and 40 years between the
> time a work goes into the public domain in a country with shorter terms
> than the US (any number of countries in the non-Anglo-European world) and
> the US. This seriously affects even 'Indian' works (where India is the
> first country of publication) because of the copyright protection granted
> to such works in the US, thus effectively placing them under copyright for
> our purposes within Wikimedia long after they've gone in to the public
> domain in their source country.
> The case to consider here is Golan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**
> Golan_v._Holder <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golan_v._Holder>
> A summary of the US Supreme Court decision in this case is - US law trumps
> international agreements, so the US copyright term holds within US
> territory, and restores copyright protection to any works that have gone
> into the public domain by virtue of a shorter copyright term in another
> country. Because Wikimedia servers are based in the US, Golan applies to us.
> But your question is an extremely pertinent one, and if we were to find
> unusual solutions to it, they would seem to lie in:
> 1) Whether hosting on US servers for a global audience makes any
> difference, since we do not serve readers only bound by US law (Wikimedia
> reader numbers bear this out, ie US readership = minority percentage of
> whole) and whether we specifically have anything special on the basis of
> which to mount some kind of strategic litigation on the issue of allowing
> us to exploit the shortest possible route to public domain anywhere in the
> world for all or some of our readers.
> 2) Whether hosting on US servers but using publicly audited geolocation to
> switch off for readers from IP addresses where the material in question is
> still under copyright is a legally and operationally feasible workaround
> (connected to whether Wikimedia Tech thinks this is both doable and worth
> our while to do)
> 3) Whether, if all fails and there is no getting around this in any way,
> Commons and Wikisource (if there is sufficient interest in those
> communities) should be interested in looking at a way of allowing external
> links to chapter-managed local sites from the US-served base to see the
> material in question; and if this is something, say, the India chapter
> wants and is willing to do, whether this route poses any legal risks.
> In any case, I passed around your question to a few friends for comments
> and suggestions - as well as to Geoff Brigham at the Wikimedia Foundation,
> who is not too hopeful for a solution but is very receptive to looking into
> it and getting back to us - and I'll tell you when I know something.
> Meanwhile, if you have other ways of looking into creative solutions
> around this problem (not at all easy to crack, but the benefits are
> significant) - or if anyone else on this list does - you should.
> Cheers,
> Achal
> On Friday 10 May 2013 10:20 PM, Balasankar Chelamattath wrote:
>> Hi Srikanth,
>> I didnt quite understand what you meant by example.
>> An example for a work which is in public domain in India and not in US -
>> Works by Changampuzha Krishnapillai ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**
>> Changampuzha_Krishna_Pillai<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Changampuzha_Krishna_Pillai>).
>> He passed away in 1948, and hence it is 65 years after the author's
>> death. So the books are copyright-free in India as of now (in pubic domain).
>> But they
>>  1. were not published before 1923
>>  2. were not in the public domain in India as of 1 January 1996 (
>>     because criteria of "60 years after author's death" not satisfied
>>     on 1996)
>> Hence they are not in public domain according to US Laws. So we cannot
>> store them in US servers.
>> The main problem is India considers copyright based on date of author's
>> death and US does it based on date of publication.
>> Regards,
>> Balasankar C
>> 2013/5/10 Srikanth Ramakrishnan <srik.ramk at wikimedia.in <mailto:
>> srik.ramk at wikimedia.in**>>
>>     Hi Balasankar,
>>     Can you point out specific instances and show when and where the
>>     book or publication was first published? If the works are still
>>     copyrighted in India, then they should be copyrighted in the US as
>>     well, generally speaking. The term India awards to creators is
>>     lesser than the one provided in the US under copyright laws.
>>     Regards,
>>     On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 10:31 PM, Balasankar Chelamattath
>>     <c.balasankar at gmail.com <mailto:c.balasankar at gmail.com**>> wrote:
>>         Hi all,
>>         As most of you know, the Indian copyright law says that a book
>>         gets relieved of copyright after 60 years from the author's
>>         death. But this is not the case with US Law. As given here
>>         <https://upload.wikimedia.org/**wikipedia/commons/9/9b/**
>> Copyrightterm.pdf<https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9b/Copyrightterm.pdf>
>> >
>>         , of all the works published outside US, only those published
>>         before 1923 are directly in the public domain. The ones
>>         published between 1923 and 1977 without compliance to the US
>>         formalities will be in the public domain only if they are in
>>         the public domain in their source country as of 1 January
>>         1996. Almost all the other categories of published works will
>>         not be in the public domain until 95 years after publishing.
>>         This induces a confusion and when looked in a legal
>>         perspective, most of the books in Indian Wikisources, are
>>         still not in public domain and hence must be removed. This
>>         makes a huge negative impact on the hard work done by
>>         contributors. Their contributions are wasted which may cause
>>         them to stop contributing. In short, this may be a negative
>>         impact on Wikimedia's image in the society.
>>         The only solution to this problem is to *host the servers of
>>         Indian Wikimedia services in India*, so that the data we
>>         upload is stored under Indian Laws. Can Wikimedia India
>>         Chapter do anything on this? We can plan and conduct a
>>         fundraiser in India to raise money for the hosting expenses.
>>         Please consider this issue with maximum priority as it
>>         involves legal procedures and related headaches.
>>         Regards,
>>         Balasankar C
>>         https://ml.wikisource.org/**wiki/User:Balasankarc<https://ml.wikisource.org/wiki/User:Balasankarc>
>>         Regards,
>>         Balasankar C
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>>     --     Srikanth Ramakrishnan
>>     Treasurer,
>>     Wikimedia Chapter [India]
>>     Donate to the Wikimedia India Chapter today
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>> >
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