[Wikimedia-l] Internet.org and Wikipedia Zero ?

Tue Aug 27 08:03:25 UTC 2013

Hei, 

I kind of sympathize with Jens' points. Mr. Zuckerberg, and especially Facebook as a business, are not necessary in a perfect synchrony with the mission and vision of the Wikimedia / Wikipedia movement. Even if this is the case we may ask does it still make sense for us to collaborate with their initiative? Would it advantage our very own mission and vision?

I also think that we are all people, also Mr. Zuckerberg, and people have different sides. I interpret that in the internet.org a group of *people*, working for big corporations, have seen a possibility to do something *good* that is same time in the interests of their businesses. I think we often forget that also in big corporation there are people, individuals who do choices. I do not see in here any hidden agendas or wrong doing. I see people trying to do something good.

Like GerardM pointed out, the internet.org may help us to get knowledge for people who otherwise would not have access to the Wikipedia. I do not see that this would move us somehow to the "dark side", especially when the *people* in the internet.org are not necessary evil. 

With the fact that the Wikimedia foundation is financially sustainable, we also have a great position to negotiate with the internet.org people. I actually think that they need more Wikimedia / Wikipedia than we need them. Still, I think collaboration with them could advance our mission.

Best regards, 

	- Teemu

On 27.8.2013, at 9.32, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hoi,
> Jens, I am sorry there is nothing in what you say that has a bearing on
> what the aim is of the Wikimedia Foundation. Our aim is to get
> information/knowledge to every person in the world. The people that may be
> reached by this initiative are the ones we do not reach.
> 
> When we can reach them through something like a Wikipedia ZERO approach,
> this would be awesome never mind if Facebook et al make money out of it.
> The NSA et al have a reach that includes us all. Nothing is likely to
> change at that. It is however beside the point. The point is that we may
> reach more people and consequently do a better job at what our aim is.
> Thanks,
>     GerardM
> 
> 
> On 26 August 2013 23:58, Jens Best <jens.best at wikimedia.de> wrote:
> 
>> The internet Mr. Zuggerberg wants was nothing to do with the ideas of free
>> knowledge, online collaboration and open source as it is provided and
>> promoted by Wikimedia.
>> 
>> Don't believe the Hype. Even and especially if it is Hype 2.0.
>> 
>> Just because the Silicon Valley billionaires got caught with sleeping with
>> the NSA suddenly they push an "open internet for the world"-Idea to
>> distract everybody from the dark roots.
>> 
>> Wikimedia should stay far away from this crowd and its "initiatives". Maybe
>> in the future we should even get more distance between them (Facebook,
>> Google, etc.) and us.
>> 
>> Jens
>> 
>> 2013/8/26 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com>
>> 
>>> Hoi,
>>> For your information ... an interview with Mr Zuggerberg... In my opinion
>>> there is an opportunity as he is looking for dense information.. we are
>>> really good at that :)
>>> Thanks,
>>>     Gerard
>>> 
>>> http://www.wired.com/business/2013/08/mark-zuckerberg-internet-org/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 23 August 2013 14:38, Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada <emijrp at gmail.com
>>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Looks like NSA has bought some new hard drives and needs moar data.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 2013/8/23 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com>
>>>> 
>>>>> Hoi,
>>>>> But when they provide the infrastructure that allows our content to
>> be
>>>> seen
>>>>> by many more people, they do us a service.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In the end it is what we are about. Last thing I heard we were first
>> of
>>>> all
>>>>> about getting the knowledge out there.
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>      GerardM
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 23 August 2013 12:14, Jens Best <jens.best at wikimedia.de> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Nothing good comes with people like Mark Zuckerberg or Peter Thiel,
>>>> they
>>>>>> don't share our vision of a *really* free and open internet. So,
>>>>> actually,
>>>>>> Emmanuel, I couldn't care less which direction they gonna make
>> their
>>>> next
>>>>>> moves. It will all be a disguise of what they really attempt and
>> with
>>>>> whom
>>>>>> they really cooperate.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It's time to realize that there isn't a shared vision of the web
>>>> between
>>>>>> Silicon Valley and Wikimedia. Their words are empty. When they
>> speak
>>> of
>>>>>> freedom, they speak of the freedom of money and control. Just
>> because
>>>>> they
>>>>>> use the word "internet" they don't speak of the same thing we do.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Jens
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 2013/8/23 Emmanuel Engelhart <kelson at kiwix.org>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Le 23/08/2013 10:59, Kul Wadhwa a écrit :
>>>>>>>> I have my concerns as well so we're watching how things unfold
>>> for
>>>>> now.
>>>>>>>> Perhaps to add to Teemu's question (If I could be so bold) how
>>>> would
>>>>>>>> internet.org need to evolve to make it worth our time and
>> effort
>>>> to
>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> involved?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If what I fear becomes real, then I would be sad that our
>> movement
>>>>> joins
>>>>>>> such a dishonest project.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If they want to give access to a subset of Internet services and
>>>> adapt
>>>>>>> their communication (honesty about the product), then we face a
>>>>> dilemma.
>>>>>>> A dilemna between our wish to give access to our content
>> (tactical
>>>>> move)
>>>>>>> and the one of having a free, neutral and un-clustered Internet
>>>>>>> (strategical view)... Big discussions in view, but we already
>> have
>>>> done
>>>>>>> it with Wikipedia zero and I know the WMF tends to be pragmatic
>> in
>>>> such
>>>>>>> situations ;)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If they really want to help to give a neutral access to
>> internet...
>>>>> then
>>>>>>> this is really a dream we should be part of!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> But, this is all about speculations...
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I just wanted to explain why this launch doesn't sound well to my
>>>>> hears.
>>>>>>> But I know nothing about their real intentions and concrete
>>> projects.
>>>>>>> That's why, it's IMO urgent to wait... and see in which direction
>>>> they
>>>>>>> will make the next moves.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Emmanuel
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Kiwix - Wikipedia Offline & more
>>>>>>> * Web: http://www.kiwix.org
>>>>>>> * Twitter: https://twitter.com/KiwixOffline
>>>>>>> * more: http://www.kiwix.org/wiki/Communication
>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Jens Best
>>>>>> Präsidium
>>>>>> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
>>>>>> web: http://www.wikimedia.de
>>>>>> mail: jens.best <http://goog_17221883>@wikimedia.de
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens
>>> e.V.
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>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> --
>> Jens Best
>> Präsidium
>> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
>> web: http://www.wikimedia.de
>> mail: jens.best <http://goog_17221883>@wikimedia.de
>> 
>> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
>> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts
>> Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig
>> anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin,
>> Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
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--------------------------------------------------
Teemu Leinonen
http://www2.uiah.fi/~tleinone/
+358 50 351 6796
Media Lab
http://mlab.uiah.fi
Aalto University 
School of Arts, Design and Architecture
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