[Wikimedia-l] [Wikidata-l] Meeting about the support of Wiktionary in Wikidata

Sat Aug 10 08:17:13 UTC 2013

To add up a couple of comments to what Denny said, from my experience with
Wikisource, reaching out to international, loosely connected communities is
already a big challenge on its own. I would like to invite Wiktionary
contributors to take a look to this Individual Engagement Grant project
that Aubrey and me are doing for Wikisource, because maybe it would make
sense that a group of involved Wiktionarians started a similar initiative
for Wiktionary. The original application can be found here:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Elaborate_Wikisource_strategic_vision

And the midterm report:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Elaborate_Wikisource_strategic_vision

If anyone from the Wiktionary community wants to step forward, I would be
more than happy to share experiences and provide advice.

Cheers,
Micru

On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 3:30 AM, Denny Vrandečić <
denny.vrandecic at wikimedia.de> wrote:

> [Sorry for cross-posting]
>
> Yes, I agree that the OmegaWiki community should be involved in the
> discussions, and I pointed GerardM to our proposals whenever and
> discussions, using him as a liaison. We also looked and keep looking at the
> OmegaWiki data model to see what we are missing.
>
> Our latest proposal is different from OmegaWiki in two major points:
>
> * our primary goal is to provide support for structured data in the
> Wiktionaries. We do not plan to be the main resource ourselves, where
> readers come to in order to look up something, we merely provide structured
> data that a Wiktionary may or may not use. This parallels the role of
> Wikidata has with regards to Wikipedia. This also highlights the difference
> between Wikidata and OmegaWiki, since OmegaWiki's goal is "to create a
> dictionary of all words of all languages, including lexical, terminological
> and ontological information."
>
> * a smaller difference is the data model. Wikidata's latest proposal to
> support Wiktionary is centered around lexemes, and we do not assume that
> there is such a things as a language-independent defined meaning. But no
> matter what model we end up with, it is important to ensure that the bulk
> of the data could freely flow between the projects, and even though we
> might disagree on this issue in the modeling, it is ensured that the
> exchange of data is widely possible.
>
> We tried to keep notes on the discussion we had today: <
> http://epl.wikimedia.org/p/WiktionaryAndWikidata>
>
> My major take home message for me is that:
> * the proposal needs more visual elements, especially a mock-up or sketch
> of how it would look like and how it could be used on the Wiktionaries
> * there is no generally accepted place for a discussion that involves all
> Wiktionary projects. Still, my initial decision to have the discussion on
> the Wikidata wiki was not a good one, and it should and will be moved to
> Meta.
>
> Having said that, the current proposal for the data model of how to support
> Wiktionary with Wikidata seems to have garnered a lot of support so far. So
> this is what I will continue building upon. Further comments are extremely
> welcomed. You can find it here:
>
> <http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Wiktionary>
>
> As said, it will be moved to Meta, as soon as the requested mockups and
> extensions are done.
>
> Cheers,
> Denny
>
>
>
>
>
> 2013/8/10 Samuel Klein <meta.sj at gmail.com>
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > > On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 6:13 PM, JP Béland <lebo.beland at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >> I agree. We also need to include the Omegawiki community.
> >
> > Agreed.
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 12:22 PM, Laura Hale <laura at fanhistory.com>
> wrote:
> > > Why? The question of moving them into the WMF fold was pretty much no,
> > > because the project has an overlapping purpose with Wiktionary,
> >
> > This is not actually the case.
> > There was overwhelming community support for adopting Omegawiki - at
> > least simply providing hosting.  It stalled because the code needed a
> > security and style review, and Kip (the lead developer) was going to
> > put some time into that.  The OW editors and dev were very interested
> > in finding a way forward that involved Wikidata and led to a combined
> > project with a single repository of terms, meanings, definitions and
> > translations.
> >
> > Recap: The page describing the OmegaWiki project satisfies all of the
> > criteria for requesting WMF adoption.
> > * It is well-defined on Meta http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Omegawiki
> > * It describes an interesting idea clearly aligned with expanding the
> > scope of free knowledge
> > * It is not a 'competing' project to Wiktionaries; it is an idea that
> > grew out of the Wiktionary community, has been developed for years
> > alongside it, and shares many active contributors and linguiaphiles.
> > * It started an RfC which garnered 85% support for adoption.
> > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Adopt_OmegaWiki
> >
> > Even if the current OW code is not used at all for a future Wiktionary
> > update -- and this idea was proposed and taken seriously by the OW
> > devs -- their community of contributors should be part of discussions
> > about how to solve the Wiktionary problem that they were the first to
> > dedicate themselves to.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Sam.
> >
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>
>
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