[Wikimedia-l] Why the WP will never be a real encyclopaedia

Thu Aug 1 20:55:01 UTC 2013

Denny

If you going to shoot me down as a troll, then I can say only that you are
one of those that refuse to see the elephant in the room. I am a journalist
(and a journalism trainer), I know that if I want others to read what I
have to say I need to come up a headline that will attract attention, while
at the same time abiding by age-old ethic standards - and I have done so.

Who controls what is said has become a big problem on the English and to a
degree the Portuguese WPs. Be fair to yourself, step back and just look at
some articles to see how many times a day they get reverted. The rot has
become endemic - there are so many people who do nothing but revert the
whole day without EVER contributing anything. Yes, I know that a lot of the
reverting is to undo the work of vandals with nothing better to do, but
most of it is done to preserve the view thae a specific article has
'acquired' through time.

Can you honesty tell me that you have not come across articles that are
'untouchable'? That you know they convey a view that is not entirely right,
but YOU and I cannot change it? Can you tell me that you have not come
across editors who are hell-bent on preserving this or that article just as
it is?

Rui

On 1 August 2013 22:40, Denny Vrandečić <denny.vrandecic at wikimedia.de>wrote:

> Rui,
>
> if your basic assumption is that Wikipedia will never be a real
> encyclopedia because of the lack of diversity among its contributors, I
> would like to know of any other encyclopedia that is anywhere close to the
> diversity among its contributors that Wikipedia has (just a side-note, the
> original Encyclopédie had an even worse bias towards aristocratic, male
> French than Wikipedias does, as surprising as it sounds). So, which
> Encyclopedia do you consider a real encyclopedia at all?
>
> Also, never mind the fact that we already sport such a diversity -- we are
> actively aiming and striving for even more diversity, and we are not
> comparing us to the usually abysmal record of other encyclopedias, but
> merely to our own high, maybe even unreachable ideals.
>
> So, whereas I fully agree that there is a lot about Wikipedia that can be
> improved, I am not sure that a mail that starts with the statement "Why the
> Wikipedia will never be a real encyclopedia" deserves even the
> consideration that I offered you here, and is to be considered anything
> beyond trolling.
>
> All the best,
> Denny
>
>
>
> 2013/8/1 Rui Correia <correia.rui at gmail.com>
>
> > Dear Colleagues at the Foundation
> >
> > I just came across an artecle called "White Africans of European
> ancestry".
> > What is that even supposed to mean?  Who would be any other "white
> people"
> > if not of Europen ancestry? What other white people (yes, WP has a
> > definition of "white people" could these be? Especially as it already
> says
> > on the talk page that Arabs don't count.
> >
> >
> > When we have 'white people' creating every conceivable article about
> 'white
> > people', but we have no 'Khoi' people writing about 'Khoi people, then we
> > can't call the WP an encyclopaedia. But them the rules do say -
> somewhere -
> > that "just because ...". And those "just because" rules are all over the
> > place - you can't use what was done in one case to justify another
> similar
> > case because someone is bound to throw a "just because" rule at you. But
> > the "just because ..." rule applies only when it is convenient - the
> > corollary of the "just because .." is "I know more rules and tricks than
> > you and I will win this/ I will not allow you to have your way even if I
> > have to break all the rules and make new ones as I go along".
> >
> > So, "just because" there isn't an artice about "Khoi people living in
> > Denmark" is no reason to not have an article about "White Europens of
> > Europen descent livng in Patagonia" or "White Europens of Europen descent
> > livng in Timbaktu". We have allowed ourselves to fall victim of the
> digital
> > divide - the Khoi don't have computers and internet, white Europeans do.
> > That is not an encyclopaedia.
> >
> > Why don't we have a page on "Black Americans of African ancestry"?
> > Or "Black Europeans of African ancestry"? Strangely enough, type "Black
> > African" and you get redirected to Black people, BUT the redirect
> actually
> > takes you all the way down to Africa - yes, the article on Black people
> > does not start with Africa, but with the United States, then Brazil ....
> >
> > Like I said, When we have 'white people' creating every conceivable
> article
> > about 'white people', but we have no 'Khoi' people writing about 'Khoi
> > people, ...
> >
> > The same goes for the so-called "Biographies of Living People". I had my
> > first clash on WP on the issue of the "dual nationality" of Nelly
> Furtado.
> > Two hundred million people see her as Portuguese, three - yes, 3 -
> editors
> > disagree and BRAG they will NEVER ALLOW it. The rationale changes, as can
> > be seen from the talk pages and archives. They go as far as 'challenging'
> > editors that NF sees herself as Portuguese, to then dismiss all the
> > evidence as not good enough - even Nelly HERSELF saying she is PORTUGESE
> > was thrown out! Why? Obvious! She doesn't count, she is not a NEUTRAL
> > source!!!!!!!!!!! We have become a joke!
> >
> > How about being constructive?
> >
> > If we can come up with every conceivable script in the world, why has
> > nobody come up with a script for controversial articles that would appear
> > on the the edit page - like the script that says the article is
> protected -
> > ALERTING unsuspecting editors to the fact that said article is
> cotroversial
> > for xand y reason, and that if the edit the editor is about to do falls
> > under that theme, to please first read the talk page, with a direct link
> > ALSO to an explanation on BLP and the issue of ethnic background/ present
> > nationality. It would save lots of wasted time and effort and the three
> > editors who spend sleepless nights reverting the artcile might actually
> do
> > something constructive for a change.
> >
> > In closing, of the nine people featured in photos on that page, I know
> > (have met 5) and correspond with 2 - I can guarantee that all five of
> them
> > (and most likley all 9 [or the descendents of those no longer with us])
> > would object to being featured in such a racist article.
> >
> > I will write to them about this. I know that each one is not a valid
> source
> > about him/ herself and therefore them objecting will probably not count.
> > Just as an side, in case you didn't know, the census in Brazil is done on
> > the basis of how people see themselves - white, back, green, pink - and
> > then we carry those figures here in the WP. Ah, sorry, those figures are
> > credible, because they come from the CIA fact book, people speaking for
> > themselves are not.
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Rui
> > --
> > Rui Correia
> > Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Consultant
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > _________________________
> > Rui Correia
> > Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Work Consultant
> > Bridge to Angola - Angola Liaison Consultant
> >
> > Mobile Number in South Africa +27 74 425 4186
> > Número de Telemóvel na África do Sul +27 74 425 4186
> > _______________
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>
>
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-- 
_________________________
Rui Correia
Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Work Consultant
Bridge to Angola - Angola Liaison Consultant

Mobile Number in South Africa +27 74 425 4186
Número de Telemóvel na África do Sul +27 74 425 4186
_______________