[Foundation-l] Guidelines for the use of iframes?

Thu Mar 15 23:24:27 UTC 2012

We're working on the privacy issue re: iframes. Just want to
thank MZMcBride for working with us on a stopgap measure until we figure
out how to post jobs in an automated way without compromising privacy.

Warm regards,
Gayle

-- 
Gayle Karen K. Young
Chief Talent and Culture Officer
Wikimedia Foundation
p. 415.839.6885 x6691
c. 415.310.8416
www.wikimediafoundation.org

On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 12:02 AM,
<foundation-l-request at lists.wikimedia.org>wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Stopping the presses: Britannica to stop printing books
>      (Ray Saintonge)
>   2. Re: [WikiEN-l] Stopping the presses:, Britannica to stop
>      printing books (Robin McCain)
>   3. Re: [WikiEN-l] Stopping the presses:, Britannica to stop
>      printing books (Svip)
>   4. sad news (phoebe ayers)
>   5. Re: Stopping the presses: Britannica to stop      printing books
>      (Keegan Peterzell)
>   6. Re: Guidelines for the use of iframes? (K. Peachey)
>   7. Re: Guidelines for the use of iframes? (MZMcBride)
>   8. Re: Guidelines for the use of iframes? (Erik Moeller)
>   9. Re: [WikiEN-l] Stopping the presses:, Britannica to stop
>      printing books (Samuel Klein)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 17:22:56 -0700
> From: Ray Saintonge <saintonge at telus.net>
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
>        <foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Stopping the presses: Britannica to stop
>        printing books
> Message-ID: <4F613660.50305 at telus.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> On 03/14/12 2:29 PM, Joan Goma wrote:
> >
> > Catalan Wikipedia has about 10 times more pageviews than them. If they
> use
> > a free license and use a wiki then their professionals can copy our best
> > articles and review them and we can copy their content. 7,8% of their
> > page-views go there from Catalan Wikipedia.
> >
> > They have 350.000 articles and Catalan Wikipedia 360.000 but there are
> > about 120.000 articles that are not the same. If we copy from them the
> > articles we don't have then Catalan Wikipedia can grow to 480.000
> articles
> > suddenly and page-views can grow about 15%. Copied articles have to
> contain
> > links to the source and acknowledge authors. Their traffic can easily be
> > duplicated.
>
> I don't think that copying articles is the way to go.  If the two
> projects have separate articles on the same subjects that's still a very
> good thing. They can still maintain their "professional" standards,
> whatever that means. The reader can compare the two and draw his own
> conclusions.
>
> > So their balance is affected by:
> > *Save costs by using free software.
> > *Save costs and grow faster by reusing contents from wikipedia.
> > *More than duplicate income from advertisement.
> > *Possibility to increase their incomes from governmental aids and grants
> by
> > publishing using free licenses.
> >
> > Summing up all this the impact in profits is huge. I tried to convince
> them
> > one year ago but until now I have not succeeded. I think the main barrier
> > is fear to some for profit company copying their content and exploiting
> it
> > commercially like them.
>
> Indeed! You are presenting them with a counter-intuitive business model.
> If they believe in an expert reviewed project they still have to market
> it that way.
>
> > But don't worry. I can be very persistent.
>
> I've noticed. :-)
>
> Ray
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 17:36:19 -0700
> From: Robin McCain <robin at slmr.com>
> To: foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] [WikiEN-l] Stopping the presses:,
>        Britannica to stop printing books
> Message-ID: <4F613983.5060704 at slmr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> I don't think it is pity to reduce an 800 word article down to under 200
> words. Instead of something readable you end up either with a Who's Who
> entry - filled with insider abbreviations and obscure wording that must
> be decoded or something so bland it has no value to anyone intrested
> enough to look it up.
>
> On 3/14/2012 4:41 PM, foundation-l-request at lists.wikimedia.org wrote:
> > Dear Robin,
> >
> > There are several reasons for making a text not too long. Pity with
> > the reader is one of them.
> My point here is that even Brittanica is inherently very English
> centric. Why should an obscure ficticious 17th century event in the U.K.
> be of more value than an equally obscure event in Honduras (or
> wherever)? If I were living in Honduras, I'd be much more interested in
> MY local history - which is quite likely to be relevant to my situation
> instead of something in a country I'd never visited. Inverting the
> situation - If I visit the U.K. I want to be able to access information
> on the event in the U.K. but I don't care about Honduras.  This is an
> ordinary person's perspective - not that of a scholar searching for
> obscure information wherever it may be.
>
> > I personally try to be reluctant with generalizations about Wikipeda
> > language versions. They usually are not true. It's often like the
> > thing that the grass in the neighbour's yard is greener.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 02:21:18 +0100
> From: Svip <svippy at gmail.com>
> To: rm at slmr.com,        Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
>        <foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] [WikiEN-l] Stopping the presses:,
>        Britannica to stop printing books
> Message-ID:
>        <CAF+KM1+GkN8vidqwH8JSO7Ye54VbHD0zUf6N4M2Y21X9nX7++Q at mail.gmail.com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> On 14 March 2012 17:34, Robin McCain <robin at slmr.com> wrote:
>
> > I find it bizarre that inclusion of information of local importance is
> > encouraged in the internationalized local language wikipediae but
> > discouraged in the U.S. English wikipedia.
>
> What U.S. English Wikipedia?  I have read plenty of articles in
> English on that Wikipedia.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 19:42:05 -0700
> From: phoebe ayers <phoebe.wiki at gmail.com>
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
>        <foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>,     English Wikipedia
>        <wikien-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Subject: [Foundation-l] sad news
> Message-ID:
>        <CAAi3vqEN6=HUpmOsd37X_tEcR1=bjHtm_MK-5WsZH2Hp=f25NA at mail.gmail.com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Those of you who have been around for a few years may remember
> user:Tlogmer, aka Ben Yates -- co-author with Charles Matthews and I
> on "How Wikipedia Works."
>
> I got an email from his mother this morning with the very sad news
> that Ben passed away yesterday. I do not know the details. He was in
> his 20s and lived in Michigan, USA.
>
> There will be a memorial service in Michigan on Friday; contact me if
> you want that information. His userpages are
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Tlogmer
> and http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Tlogmer
>
> For several years Ben wrote a blog about Wikipedia that was incisive
> and widely read. Older posts can be found here:
> http://wikip.blogspot.com/
>
> He also designed the Wikimania logo with the two "w"s; originally
> designed for Wikimania 2006, we use it to this day:
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimania_%28spacing%29.png
>
> Ben was a skilled artist and designer and was responsible for all of
> the figures in "How Wikipedia Works." He also designed posters and
> graphic materials for Wikimania and proposed many other merchandise
> designs to promote Wikipedia.
>
> He was funny, smart, and shy; I never had a bad interaction with him.
> I worked with him intensively for many months but never got a chance
> to meet him in person, but I counted him as a friend long after we
> finished the book. He will be missed.
>
> If you have any comments that you would like to be given to his family
> or read at the service, please post them on Ben's talk page or send to
> me directly. Wikimedia was meaningful to Ben, and it would mean a lot
> to let his mom that people cared about her son as a colleague and
> friend.
>
> thanks,
> -- Phoebe
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 22:54:31 -0500
> From: Keegan Peterzell <keegan.wiki at gmail.com>
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
>        <foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Stopping the presses: Britannica to stop
>        printing books
> Message-ID:
>        <CAELXKR+ZfmYr04K=gT_Kwu0SDDp0XTn53XfCY=BG7z2+b0ATLA at mail.gmail.com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 7:22 PM, Ray Saintonge <saintonge at telus.net>
> wrote:
> >
> > I don't think that copying articles is the way to go.  If the two
> projects
> > have separate articles on the same subjects that's still a very good
> thing.
> > They can still maintain their "professional" standards, whatever that
> > means. The reader can compare the two and draw his own conclusions.
> >
> >
> I don't agree.  Once copied back to Wikipedia the articles are open for
> continued editing and expanding- for better or worse.  Then we have a
> comprehensive comparison between the article as it was when taken from
> Wikipedia, what it looked like when rewritten and given back, and the
> current state. It could make for an interesting paper.   I don't think that
> the Catalan Wikipedia just protects the articles and leaves them as done,
> do they?
>
> --
> ~Keegan
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Keegan
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 15:01:15 +1000
> From: "K. Peachey" <p858snake at gmail.com>
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
>        <foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Guidelines for the use of iframes?
> Message-ID:
>        <CADnECnVxie78+htd1n5A0R3KWWtahB8wTzdufvVkSG3Ec52OxA at mail.gmail.com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> That should be reverted right now per our privacy policy and any
> others on site. No different than share button usage.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 01:30:02 -0500
> From: MZMcBride <z at mzmcbride.com>
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
>        <foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Guidelines for the use of iframes?
> Message-ID: <CB86F69A.18746%z at mzmcbride.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="US-ASCII"
>
> K. Peachey wrote:
> > That should be reverted right now per our privacy policy and any
> > others on site. No different than share button usage.
>
> As far as I've come to understand it, it's a matter of whether Jobvite's
> privacy policy is compatible with Wikimedia's:
>
> * https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Privacy_policy
> * http://recruiting.jobvite.com/privacy-policy.php
>
> I don't know the answer, but I imagine someone will be along in short order
> to clarify.
>
> MZMcBride
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 23:34:22 -0700
> From: Erik Moeller <erik at wikimedia.org>
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
>        <foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Guidelines for the use of iframes?
> Message-ID:
>        <CAEg6ZHkVNQ20Lz_k3-=2=ibJqVZVtEYC8Boo-wTmdXRgk6kJQw at mail.gmail.com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> HR recently switched to an externally hosted applicant tracking system
> called Jobvite. It's sadly proprietary, but very feature-rich and used
> by many tech companies, including e.g. Mozilla. Basically the previous
> process was for candidates to be dumped in a shared inbox, where
> recruiters and hiring managers would have to keep track of them with
> the aid of tracking spreadsheets and lots of emails. An ATS automates
> a lot of the tracking and workflows, and helps ensure that people
> don't get dropped. It also sends hiring managers reminders to submit
> all the required hiring documentation, etc. So in general it's a good
> thing, although we sometimes curse at aspects of its UI.
>
> The rationale for the iframe is to automate the job listings on the
> WMF site and surface the various Jobvite features.
>
> Yes, that means that the user's browser will contact hire.jobvite.com
> when loading the page (although all its resources will be loaded in
> the context of the iframe). AFAICT the main issue here is to clarify
> in the footer that job applications and job descriptions are run
> through an external service called Jobvite and subject to the Jobvite
> privacy policy, to avoid any confusion.
>
> Whether the iframe is a good idea still remains to be seen. Jobvite
> makes it unnecessarily hard to link to JDs directly (because their
> ideology is that everyone should come through some social media
> funnel, I think), and the navigation is heavily JS dependent right
> now. So we might want to switch back to a hybrid format. The job pages
> are also still actively being re-designed, and the setup might change
> significantly in coming weeks.
>
> Erik
> --
> Erik M?ller
> VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation
>
> Support Free Knowledge: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 03:06:50 -0400
> From: Samuel Klein <meta.sj at gmail.com>
> To: rm at slmr.com,        Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
>        <foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] [WikiEN-l] Stopping the presses:,
>        Britannica to stop printing books
> Message-ID:
>        <CAAtU9WLkc70XG0t-D9PEz5G1Qcq08JPZFDoOTCfTbii1xgQOKw at mail.gmail.com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 12:34 PM, Robin McCain <robin at slmr.com> wrote:
> > I find it bizarre that inclusion of information of local importance is
> > encouraged in the internationalized local language wikipediae but
> > discouraged in the U.S. English wikipedia. ?So events of local interest
> in a
> > town in Romania are desirable but the same cannot be said of a similar
> event
> > in San Jose, California.
>
> In general I think we should be relaxing notability guidelines so that
> we can cover increasingly local knowledge, while improving our
> browsing and review tools -- so people can both visually perceive the
> spectrum of notability (from hyperlocal to epochally historic) and
> more effectively review topics that have coverage in more local and
> less globally-reputable sources.
>
> Small wikis don't need to worry about the side effects of having a
> large database with limited tools to review it.
>
> S
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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>
> End of foundation-l Digest, Vol 96, Issue 54
> ********************************************
>