[Foundation-l] Copyrighted maps and Derived works from copyrighted sources.

[WJhonson at aol.com]

In a message dated 4/1/2010 5:28:50 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
jamesmikedupont at googlemail.com writes:


> Guys,
> Lets get back to one point : terms of service.
> 
> We are talking about copyright here the whole time, but the contract
> agreement in the terms of service are much more binding, they override
> your copyright.>>
-----------
No they do not.  We've already been through this before.  Any terms of 
service purporting to copyright things in the PD is null and void.  We can 
ignore any interpretation that such a database exerts a new right to copyright a 
PD item.
-------------------

> 
> If the terms of service do not allow mass database extraction, WP is
> violating that on a large scale. >>
----------------------------
If the provider is violating common sense and decency, we can ignore their 
terms of service.
And who is stating "mass database extraction" except you?  AFAIK, the 
lat/long points were entered more or less haphazardly from various sources
-----------------------

> 
> The online maps are provided to you under very strict rules and to
> access them you must agree to them.
> The whole idea of many map providers is that you can only view these
> great maps using their software and their software keys. >>

---------------
"Maps" are not "Points".  You're setting up an argument quite different 
from that with which you started.  They aren't "great maps", they're awful maps 
:)  Explain your bias!  Do you work for Google Maps and are just here 
trolling us?  What's a software key to using a map?  Are you suggesting that some 
of our maps are extracted from non-public sources?  But again stick to 
points or stick to maps, don't meander all over the board.
---------------------

> 
> If wikipedia is condoning a mass import of data from such a source
> that goes against that contract, how can you justify it? How can other
> people trust the judgement of wikipedia on this issue? >>

-------------------------
Any contract that requires you to do something which is against the letter 
or spirit of the law is null and void, at least in that portion.
------------------------


> 
> What if we start to write articles about street and include all the
> buildings and boring parts of the streets in the WP or some
> subproject, where would it stop? What would protect a database of
> streets against such a swarm of fact collectors?
> mike>>
---------------------------------------------

It wouldn't stop.  Nothing would protect a database of streets against 
"fact" collectors.  That is because facts cannot be copyright (repeat one 
hundred times on the blackboard in your own blood).

By the way, many genealogical publications were quite annoyed when Ancestry 
decided to simply scan and index thousands of "copyrighted" books which 
were merely collections of "facts" (so and so married so and so and died and 
was buried here, etc etc), without permission, license or payment.

They can, and they did.  I can copy the telephone books of every city in 
the U.S. should I wish.  You cannot copyright facts.
Your sweat equity alone does not grant you a copyright.  Your work must 
show creativity of some kind.  Not merely slavish mechanical extraction and 
organization.

W.J.